I like Tom Spanbauer’s metaphor for writing a first draft. Though, given the length of time that it can sometimes take to complete a first draft, I think “You’re still pissing out a kidney stone” could unfortunately take its metaphorical place.
Some months back on a short run I heard you retell Goldberg's bit on the Joe Rogan Experience. I remember exactly where I was when you described it -- on a very steep hill opposite my apartment. Every time I run up that steep hill I'm reminded of the bit and Joe's reaction when you delivered her punchline. Scary powerful bit.
I like to keep in mind what Roxanne Gay says about memoir writing, something like, "You don't have to cannibalize yourself to tell your story." Also, I get spiritual satisfaction out of keeping some secrets forever, and I attempt to only allude to those secrets when I write.
Great piece. Over time my own writing has grown progressively more autobiographical but I've always consciously eschewed straight up memoir (partly for the reasons Chuck mentions). I do look at my own writing (which I consider autofic) and wonder about the line between autofic and memoir. What is the difference, besides changing names/dates/etc. as a courtesy or for liability reasons? Especially today with there being close to zero privacy, anyone can find out roughly how true to life a piece of writing is.
As an aside, for my tastes, the best autofic would be Bukowski, and the best example of using metaphor to indirectly resolve personal issues would be Kafka.
You read my mind! I'd already written a question for this post (kind of):
How do you deal with examining emotions? Like you say you try and examine feelings when they arise so you can write about them, but what about all the harmful ones, all the ones that you take on board and act them out and become them. All the self-destruction? Like the method acting in your head? How do you deal with something that you know is going to potentially harm you? Can you compartmentalise this stuff?
I haven't had much luck broaching my deepest emotions with memoir. Those stories always seem to be more about others - my friends, my enemies, my family - and my perception of their struggles. Maybe it's safer to give my tragedies to fictional characters?
It might be a mistake, but I like to throw my most painful memories at my antagonists. It reminds me that they're human, even if they're damaged. Maybe to let them make the self-indulgent decisions I wanted to make but was morally disinclined to? Like forcing them to relive my childhood memory of watching my dog be smashed in half by a garbage truck. What if I had allowed the trauma from that experience to turn into greed, hate, or violence? What if, in some lesser way, I did exactly that? It makes me want to find something redeemable in that person, because I want to find it in myself.
Too many of my workshop experiences have devolved into this same kind of "therapy" session, and I can't begrudge anyone their need to unburden. But when I'm there to learn, it irks me to have to wade through emotional baggage that isn't pertinent to the craft. Am I being unsympathetic? I want to be compassionate and sincere, but I'm just as interested in doing good work. As someone who exists in a near-constant state of existential crisis, my "coping mechanism" has always been to plow on, to do my best to learn from the experience and use it for growth and creation rather than dwell on it. Is there a place for that, or am I just a dick?
I live in the south, and I've had to find a group on the west coast to work with in order to get honest feedback. Southerners are extremely critical, but they won't say it to your face. You have to interpret their meaning through phrasing and tone. They precede every harsh word with "Bless their heart..." I call it 'polite malice'. It drives me f***ing batty. Parented by a 'Nam vet and a hardscrabble country woman, I was well into my twenties before I realized that not many people appreciate brutal honesty. I eventually developed the empathy to use truth as an embrace, rather than a weapon. But like you said, "I liked it" isn't helpful. I'd rather be told it's dogsh*t and I should keep my day job.
The group I'm in now is run by a curmudgeonly professor who penned a series of "how-to" books that I enjoyed. He's harsh, but helpful. He says Oregonians are too damned nice, and he's not entirely wrong, the Portlanders I've met are warm and inviting folks. But I've found more direct critique in his group than any local ones. Unfortunately, this group does not meet often enough to be beneficial to me, especially with the pandemic. I'm the youngest member by a generation, and though I'm vaccinated (I know, I'm southern, but not one of those southerners) I'm a little reticent about travelling cross-country to sit in a room with a bunch of immunocompromised people, even if the oldest member of the group is one of the toughest people I've ever met. When the whole world's trying to stop an outbreak, I don't want to be the guy driving the monkey to the airport.
"Consider This" is an invaluable resource. Seriously, thank you. I appreciate your love for the craft, and your drive to teach it. I've wrapped it in an old generic library dust jacket to avoid damaging the retail cover, and I've coupled it with a notebook so I don't mark it up. I reference it more than any other book on my "tools" shelf. I'm also a regular Litreactor student (Thanks, Suzy!). But I work best with face-to-face feedback and interaction. I need something constant, or at least something more than biannual. It's one of the many reasons I joined this Substack, which again I am thankful for. Your advice provides emotional clarity about writing and about living as a writer. How often does your group meet? Any chance I could sit in or observe when I'm in town? I'm housebroken, have all my shots, I play well with others, and I'm not easily offended. Have pencils, will travel.
For the record, I LOVE memoir. Many of my favorite books are memoirs. I am "particularly rabid about rejecting memoir" in our workshop because it's a FICTION writing workshop, in which we specifically have said that the only rule is NO MEMOIR. So when folks try to slide memoir in and pretend it's fiction it's obvious, and annoying, and super hard to edit. And yeah, makes me froth at the mouth a little, and bite. Hey. ALL WRITING is memoir. But run it through the cheese grater before you call it fiction. Or just call it memoir. The point is, decide. Don't pretend there's no difference... Here endeth the lesson.
Chuck I’m sorry to post another selfish question, but something came up today that has blindsided me a bit. I’m concerned and I’m curious what you’ll have to say (if obliged). I found out that over the past few months a few books just came out on the topic I am exploring in my story’s narrative. It’s not the entire narrative, but it’s a big part of it. I thought I was writing about something that hadn’t been touched yet and now there are all these new fiction stories using an (until now) untapped part of my narrative. Do you ever have these concerns? Am I now screwed? Should I grab these books and read them or stay away from them and focus on what I’m working on? I’ve been working as hard as I can to make this book as unique as possible and well written. It’s frustrating to feel like I might have been beaten to something. I wish I could finish it faster, but I don’t want my work to suck.
If anyone wants to watch the full Whoopi Goldberg routine it's here, around the 20 minute mark....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnWreiWF2nQ
I like Tom Spanbauer’s metaphor for writing a first draft. Though, given the length of time that it can sometimes take to complete a first draft, I think “You’re still pissing out a kidney stone” could unfortunately take its metaphorical place.
Invaluable info exactly when it's needed most. Your generosity knows no bounds.
Also, all forms of writing, in general, are viable, correct? Memoire, Fiction, Non-Fiction, Veiled Memoire...etc. Just not in all Workshops.
Some months back on a short run I heard you retell Goldberg's bit on the Joe Rogan Experience. I remember exactly where I was when you described it -- on a very steep hill opposite my apartment. Every time I run up that steep hill I'm reminded of the bit and Joe's reaction when you delivered her punchline. Scary powerful bit.
I like to keep in mind what Roxanne Gay says about memoir writing, something like, "You don't have to cannibalize yourself to tell your story." Also, I get spiritual satisfaction out of keeping some secrets forever, and I attempt to only allude to those secrets when I write.
Great piece. Over time my own writing has grown progressively more autobiographical but I've always consciously eschewed straight up memoir (partly for the reasons Chuck mentions). I do look at my own writing (which I consider autofic) and wonder about the line between autofic and memoir. What is the difference, besides changing names/dates/etc. as a courtesy or for liability reasons? Especially today with there being close to zero privacy, anyone can find out roughly how true to life a piece of writing is.
As an aside, for my tastes, the best autofic would be Bukowski, and the best example of using metaphor to indirectly resolve personal issues would be Kafka.
You read my mind! I'd already written a question for this post (kind of):
How do you deal with examining emotions? Like you say you try and examine feelings when they arise so you can write about them, but what about all the harmful ones, all the ones that you take on board and act them out and become them. All the self-destruction? Like the method acting in your head? How do you deal with something that you know is going to potentially harm you? Can you compartmentalise this stuff?
Great post. By the way, I love this substack So Much. I feel like I am in some kind of super awesome club with the other subscribers.
I haven't had much luck broaching my deepest emotions with memoir. Those stories always seem to be more about others - my friends, my enemies, my family - and my perception of their struggles. Maybe it's safer to give my tragedies to fictional characters?
It might be a mistake, but I like to throw my most painful memories at my antagonists. It reminds me that they're human, even if they're damaged. Maybe to let them make the self-indulgent decisions I wanted to make but was morally disinclined to? Like forcing them to relive my childhood memory of watching my dog be smashed in half by a garbage truck. What if I had allowed the trauma from that experience to turn into greed, hate, or violence? What if, in some lesser way, I did exactly that? It makes me want to find something redeemable in that person, because I want to find it in myself.
Too many of my workshop experiences have devolved into this same kind of "therapy" session, and I can't begrudge anyone their need to unburden. But when I'm there to learn, it irks me to have to wade through emotional baggage that isn't pertinent to the craft. Am I being unsympathetic? I want to be compassionate and sincere, but I'm just as interested in doing good work. As someone who exists in a near-constant state of existential crisis, my "coping mechanism" has always been to plow on, to do my best to learn from the experience and use it for growth and creation rather than dwell on it. Is there a place for that, or am I just a dick?
I live in the south, and I've had to find a group on the west coast to work with in order to get honest feedback. Southerners are extremely critical, but they won't say it to your face. You have to interpret their meaning through phrasing and tone. They precede every harsh word with "Bless their heart..." I call it 'polite malice'. It drives me f***ing batty. Parented by a 'Nam vet and a hardscrabble country woman, I was well into my twenties before I realized that not many people appreciate brutal honesty. I eventually developed the empathy to use truth as an embrace, rather than a weapon. But like you said, "I liked it" isn't helpful. I'd rather be told it's dogsh*t and I should keep my day job.
The group I'm in now is run by a curmudgeonly professor who penned a series of "how-to" books that I enjoyed. He's harsh, but helpful. He says Oregonians are too damned nice, and he's not entirely wrong, the Portlanders I've met are warm and inviting folks. But I've found more direct critique in his group than any local ones. Unfortunately, this group does not meet often enough to be beneficial to me, especially with the pandemic. I'm the youngest member by a generation, and though I'm vaccinated (I know, I'm southern, but not one of those southerners) I'm a little reticent about travelling cross-country to sit in a room with a bunch of immunocompromised people, even if the oldest member of the group is one of the toughest people I've ever met. When the whole world's trying to stop an outbreak, I don't want to be the guy driving the monkey to the airport.
"Consider This" is an invaluable resource. Seriously, thank you. I appreciate your love for the craft, and your drive to teach it. I've wrapped it in an old generic library dust jacket to avoid damaging the retail cover, and I've coupled it with a notebook so I don't mark it up. I reference it more than any other book on my "tools" shelf. I'm also a regular Litreactor student (Thanks, Suzy!). But I work best with face-to-face feedback and interaction. I need something constant, or at least something more than biannual. It's one of the many reasons I joined this Substack, which again I am thankful for. Your advice provides emotional clarity about writing and about living as a writer. How often does your group meet? Any chance I could sit in or observe when I'm in town? I'm housebroken, have all my shots, I play well with others, and I'm not easily offended. Have pencils, will travel.
I would like to join your writing club is it on zoom
For the record, I LOVE memoir. Many of my favorite books are memoirs. I am "particularly rabid about rejecting memoir" in our workshop because it's a FICTION writing workshop, in which we specifically have said that the only rule is NO MEMOIR. So when folks try to slide memoir in and pretend it's fiction it's obvious, and annoying, and super hard to edit. And yeah, makes me froth at the mouth a little, and bite. Hey. ALL WRITING is memoir. But run it through the cheese grater before you call it fiction. Or just call it memoir. The point is, decide. Don't pretend there's no difference... Here endeth the lesson.
Chuck I’m sorry to post another selfish question, but something came up today that has blindsided me a bit. I’m concerned and I’m curious what you’ll have to say (if obliged). I found out that over the past few months a few books just came out on the topic I am exploring in my story’s narrative. It’s not the entire narrative, but it’s a big part of it. I thought I was writing about something that hadn’t been touched yet and now there are all these new fiction stories using an (until now) untapped part of my narrative. Do you ever have these concerns? Am I now screwed? Should I grab these books and read them or stay away from them and focus on what I’m working on? I’ve been working as hard as I can to make this book as unique as possible and well written. It’s frustrating to feel like I might have been beaten to something. I wish I could finish it faster, but I don’t want my work to suck.
Thanks Chuck, this was everything i needed to read today!
Great advice - thank you Chuck