Personally I can relate the ULA's feelings toward the "old guard" literary establishment (and I suppose the new guard as well) but I've always been able to admit to myself that nothing I've produced is worthy of excessive praise or a fat paycheck (regardless of how many hours I've invested). I think those people have a specific pathology that really metastasizes when they congregate.
Oddly I didn't start with Gen X when it comes to Coupland's work. For some reason I started with Shampoo Planet and was hooked. Microserfs really made me look at what I was doing and is part of the reason I moved from 20 years in the photo lab business (digital retouch artist) to getting my masters in Library Science and becoming an archivist. It made me realize that I SHOULD love what I do a bit more.
Speaking of memes and Doug C, he recently appeared on Bret Ellis' podcast and mentioned how he hasn't written a novel in a decade mainly because he barely reads novels anymore (he did just drop a new short story collection that I am digging). Doug and Bret seem to agree the novel is "dead". Whether or not you agree with this statement, do you think memes have taken a big place in the culture previously held by novels, films, etc., and do you think memes can be considered a form of minimalism?
btw, I spent like ten minutes making a meme that has been seen by probably millions and become a permanent part of the online counterculture. When I compare this to the effort I spend writing a short story or essay or novella that may or may not get published and best case scenario be read by hundreds of people... well, I relate to Doug's sentiment that much more.
Nick, has anyone ever optioned a meme for a limited series or a film? Not that fiction is merely fodder for filming. But also consider how many social movements are fueled by an "Uncle Tom's Cabin" or a "To Kill a Mockingbird." Only novels seem to become the bible of a social movement.
I'd argue that the very limited idea of what's an acceptable novel -- as defined by Mark McGurl in his book 'The Program Era' -- is what's suppressing novels. When a writer shakes off those strictures the novel will surge.
Also, one last point to clarify my original post: when I communicate with my circle of friends (diverse in background but in my opinion above average in intellect and education) we almost never discuss books, but we constantly send each other memes and our thoughts on said memes.
I can think of a list that rocks which was the central through-line of the sixth chapter from a book. This chapter with its list was apparently the first piece of the book that was written. I’d describe the list and what it entails, but I’d be breaking some rules if I did.
Chuck, would you agree that one of the best (the best?) attributes of lists in fiction is the immersion that they bring with them? Lists, I think, provide a ‘grounding’ element to fiction that can be both immersive and or entertaining.
On a more basic level I think a list simply provides a contrasting bit of "texture" to a story. It refreshes the eye and makes the regular prose seem less monotonous. It's not Big Voice philosophizing, but it's also not Little Voice camera work.
Plants will become stagnate in their growth without wind. Lovely reminder Chuck that we artists all need support, but also not to forget about the PUSH that is needed to become great!
"Curious about the ULA antics, Gerry invited the group to meet with him and present their best work. Gerry is nothing if not a fan of transgressive fiction and guerrilla marketing. The ULA came to the meeting, and they had nothing to show him. Despite all their demands to be heard, they came empty handed. Instead, they proposed that if Gerry would sign them each to contracts with six-figures in advance money, then they’d deign to write their books."
Oh man, if this doesn't scream Millennial Snowflake I don't know what does (curious though when exactly this meeting took place, and whether the ULA were comprised more of Millennials or Gen X). Says a lot about our current socio-political moment. I think Gerry showed exactly how to deal with people like this.
Can we not bash generations ☹️ I hate all this millennial are snowflakes stuff. Talking about mental health is a good thing. People across all generations can be entitled shits.
Except it never happened. Total fiction. (Btw, the ULA was active from 2000 through 2009.)
Can we get some apologies for all the slander? (The KGB and Housing Works stories are exaggerated. The Bissell article was a hatchet job for the Believer's publisher, who was miffed at us for something trivial.)
In terms of lists, have you read Boys by Rick Moody? Also, "Die Like a Rockstar" by the rapper Danny Brown is my favorite list song of the past few years.
Chuck, a big thanks to you for mentioning The Quarterly magazine in a pervious blog. I bought a stack of them some time ago and the stories in there have helped me a lot.
This sounds like you don't need to find someone who tells you that you're good, but someone who makes you better (probably by suggesting the opposite). Publishing/editing sounds like a complicated topic (to someone who has no clue) is it going to be covered in more depth later?
Also, it seems so alien that the authors you mention (Coupland, Ellis, Welsh, and obviously yourself) had to be defended. Your work makes up a good chunk of the room on my bookshelves.
"This sounds like you don't need to find someone who tells you that you're good, but someone who makes you better (probably by suggesting the opposite)."
Yes, this is why as Chuck has often said it's so key to be part of a productive workshop. I have a small writer's circle I met online and they're so good at this.
That sound amazing. I think it's probably be a thin line between constructive criticism and ego. Like everyone else here, I'm all for the criticism because otherwise how do you learn?
“The trouble isn’t making poems, the trouble’s finding somebody that will listen to them.” That’s from a children’s book I accidentally bought recently called “The Bat Poet”. The bat actually produces a lot of poems and presents them to various creatures in the forest when the bats won’t listen. It sounds like the Bat-Poet produced more work than the ULA ha
Great post, thank you! I’m thinking about looking for an in person writing group to join so I can be held accountable to produce more work
Loved the post. The whole ULA story was great. The fact he offered to read their work, which is a huge deal, and they had nothing is so satisfying. It makes one think though to make sure you're really ready for what you're searching for.
My mother is actually my editor. She's not the most useful sounding board for new ideas but she is quite pedantic with grammar and spelling which comes in handy. Where should I start looking for an Editor to help me formulate ideas in the '20's? I guess this is also a part of the larger conversation about whether you need a book agent or publisher anymore either.
Someone just told me about this article tonight, thus the very late comment. I'm not sure what transpired in the meeting with Gerry Howard, but the ULA put out zines, including a communal zine called The Slush Pile, and they would have had those then, so I'm not quite sure why Gerry thought they had no writing. They later even had their own line of books. You can get a taste of the group's writing in this anthology, which you can download for free as an epub or pdf here: https://www.wredfright.com/2020/06/the-underground-literary-alliance.html
I likewise just found out about this piece. The Gerry Howard tale: total bullshit. No one from the ULA met with the guy, or even knew/knows who he is. I should know-- I was doing publicity for the group when it was going. If someone pretending to be from the ULA met with him, I'd sure like to know their name. Btw, any of us holding out for six figures, or for anything? I was usually sleeping on a floor in an unheated building in Philly, or couch surfing, or when I had a few bucks, staying in a cell-sized room at the Parker Hotel downtown, at the time a no-questions-asked pay cash kind of place. p.s. We ended having some of our books published by a small press guy in Michigan, Jeff Potter of Out Your Backdoor Books. You can look it up, as they say. Six figures! We could've been had for six dollars.
Sincerely,
Karl Wenclas
p.p.s. Please add a correction to your piece. p.p.p.s. I'm currently promoting an anti-AI "Save the Writer!" petition. Care to sign?? https://www.change.org/SavetheWriter
Personally I can relate the ULA's feelings toward the "old guard" literary establishment (and I suppose the new guard as well) but I've always been able to admit to myself that nothing I've produced is worthy of excessive praise or a fat paycheck (regardless of how many hours I've invested). I think those people have a specific pathology that really metastasizes when they congregate.
Oddly I didn't start with Gen X when it comes to Coupland's work. For some reason I started with Shampoo Planet and was hooked. Microserfs really made me look at what I was doing and is part of the reason I moved from 20 years in the photo lab business (digital retouch artist) to getting my masters in Library Science and becoming an archivist. It made me realize that I SHOULD love what I do a bit more.
Have you read Doug's old stuff in Adbusters magazine? Excellent. And a decade before memes became a thing.
No, but I will scour the internet for it!
Speaking of memes and Doug C, he recently appeared on Bret Ellis' podcast and mentioned how he hasn't written a novel in a decade mainly because he barely reads novels anymore (he did just drop a new short story collection that I am digging). Doug and Bret seem to agree the novel is "dead". Whether or not you agree with this statement, do you think memes have taken a big place in the culture previously held by novels, films, etc., and do you think memes can be considered a form of minimalism?
btw, I spent like ten minutes making a meme that has been seen by probably millions and become a permanent part of the online counterculture. When I compare this to the effort I spend writing a short story or essay or novella that may or may not get published and best case scenario be read by hundreds of people... well, I relate to Doug's sentiment that much more.
Nick, has anyone ever optioned a meme for a limited series or a film? Not that fiction is merely fodder for filming. But also consider how many social movements are fueled by an "Uncle Tom's Cabin" or a "To Kill a Mockingbird." Only novels seem to become the bible of a social movement.
I'd argue that the very limited idea of what's an acceptable novel -- as defined by Mark McGurl in his book 'The Program Era' -- is what's suppressing novels. When a writer shakes off those strictures the novel will surge.
That said, where can I see your meme??
okay but don't say I didn't warn you
https://ifunny.co/picture/49w2A9pW7
Hah! Now delete your link before you're canceled!
Also, one last point to clarify my original post: when I communicate with my circle of friends (diverse in background but in my opinion above average in intellect and education) we almost never discuss books, but we constantly send each other memes and our thoughts on said memes.
Kimber! Winner that you are, The Cult still awaits your mailing details for the prize.
I can think of a list that rocks which was the central through-line of the sixth chapter from a book. This chapter with its list was apparently the first piece of the book that was written. I’d describe the list and what it entails, but I’d be breaking some rules if I did.
Chuck, would you agree that one of the best (the best?) attributes of lists in fiction is the immersion that they bring with them? Lists, I think, provide a ‘grounding’ element to fiction that can be both immersive and or entertaining.
On a more basic level I think a list simply provides a contrasting bit of "texture" to a story. It refreshes the eye and makes the regular prose seem less monotonous. It's not Big Voice philosophizing, but it's also not Little Voice camera work.
Plants will become stagnate in their growth without wind. Lovely reminder Chuck that we artists all need support, but also not to forget about the PUSH that is needed to become great!
"Curious about the ULA antics, Gerry invited the group to meet with him and present their best work. Gerry is nothing if not a fan of transgressive fiction and guerrilla marketing. The ULA came to the meeting, and they had nothing to show him. Despite all their demands to be heard, they came empty handed. Instead, they proposed that if Gerry would sign them each to contracts with six-figures in advance money, then they’d deign to write their books."
Oh man, if this doesn't scream Millennial Snowflake I don't know what does (curious though when exactly this meeting took place, and whether the ULA were comprised more of Millennials or Gen X). Says a lot about our current socio-political moment. I think Gerry showed exactly how to deal with people like this.
It was more Gen X because the antics took place in the late 90s and early 00s. Gerry was stunned that they'd no work to present.
... can't tell if you're being sarcastic. As a betting man I'd be like 50-50 on this.
Okay, gotcha. I'm familiar with that scene, I think I have a screengrab of it saved somewhere, maybe in my "memes to make" folder.
Can we not bash generations ☹️ I hate all this millennial are snowflakes stuff. Talking about mental health is a good thing. People across all generations can be entitled shits.
(I'm gen X btw)
"These kids today are a bunch of entitled snowflakes and will never amount to much of nothing." -- Socrates, probably
Except it never happened. Total fiction. (Btw, the ULA was active from 2000 through 2009.)
Can we get some apologies for all the slander? (The KGB and Housing Works stories are exaggerated. The Bissell article was a hatchet job for the Believer's publisher, who was miffed at us for something trivial.)
In terms of lists, have you read Boys by Rick Moody? Also, "Die Like a Rockstar" by the rapper Danny Brown is my favorite list song of the past few years.
Chuck, a big thanks to you for mentioning The Quarterly magazine in a pervious blog. I bought a stack of them some time ago and the stories in there have helped me a lot.
Fantastic. Tom Spanbauer's story "Sea Animals" is one to look for.
This sounds like you don't need to find someone who tells you that you're good, but someone who makes you better (probably by suggesting the opposite). Publishing/editing sounds like a complicated topic (to someone who has no clue) is it going to be covered in more depth later?
Also, it seems so alien that the authors you mention (Coupland, Ellis, Welsh, and obviously yourself) had to be defended. Your work makes up a good chunk of the room on my bookshelves.
"This sounds like you don't need to find someone who tells you that you're good, but someone who makes you better (probably by suggesting the opposite)."
Yes, this is why as Chuck has often said it's so key to be part of a productive workshop. I have a small writer's circle I met online and they're so good at this.
That sound amazing. I think it's probably be a thin line between constructive criticism and ego. Like everyone else here, I'm all for the criticism because otherwise how do you learn?
“The trouble isn’t making poems, the trouble’s finding somebody that will listen to them.” That’s from a children’s book I accidentally bought recently called “The Bat Poet”. The bat actually produces a lot of poems and presents them to various creatures in the forest when the bats won’t listen. It sounds like the Bat-Poet produced more work than the ULA ha
Great post, thank you! I’m thinking about looking for an in person writing group to join so I can be held accountable to produce more work
Loved the post. The whole ULA story was great. The fact he offered to read their work, which is a huge deal, and they had nothing is so satisfying. It makes one think though to make sure you're really ready for what you're searching for.
Bruno Maddox wrote an expose on the ALA for BlackBook magazine. It was amazing.
My mother is actually my editor. She's not the most useful sounding board for new ideas but she is quite pedantic with grammar and spelling which comes in handy. Where should I start looking for an Editor to help me formulate ideas in the '20's? I guess this is also a part of the larger conversation about whether you need a book agent or publisher anymore either.
Someone just told me about this article tonight, thus the very late comment. I'm not sure what transpired in the meeting with Gerry Howard, but the ULA put out zines, including a communal zine called The Slush Pile, and they would have had those then, so I'm not quite sure why Gerry thought they had no writing. They later even had their own line of books. You can get a taste of the group's writing in this anthology, which you can download for free as an epub or pdf here: https://www.wredfright.com/2020/06/the-underground-literary-alliance.html
I likewise just found out about this piece. The Gerry Howard tale: total bullshit. No one from the ULA met with the guy, or even knew/knows who he is. I should know-- I was doing publicity for the group when it was going. If someone pretending to be from the ULA met with him, I'd sure like to know their name. Btw, any of us holding out for six figures, or for anything? I was usually sleeping on a floor in an unheated building in Philly, or couch surfing, or when I had a few bucks, staying in a cell-sized room at the Parker Hotel downtown, at the time a no-questions-asked pay cash kind of place. p.s. We ended having some of our books published by a small press guy in Michigan, Jeff Potter of Out Your Backdoor Books. You can look it up, as they say. Six figures! We could've been had for six dollars.
Sincerely,
Karl Wenclas
p.p.s. Please add a correction to your piece. p.p.p.s. I'm currently promoting an anti-AI "Save the Writer!" petition. Care to sign?? https://www.change.org/SavetheWriter