I’ve been doing a lot of investigating into gardening. Did you know you can make plumper roses with a mixture of bone meal and blood meal in aerated soil?
What do you grow? I attempted pumpkins this year. Got a whole lot of beautiful trailing vines and some bulbs but apparently the acidity of the soil from last years runoff they never developed into fully grown pumpkins. I might try to make box beds with bought soil next year but the expense is insane.
No this was a different one. He targeted gay men he met in Toronto, and the Toronto police never followed up on the missing persons cases for years. Racial bias against the victims and homophobia at the same time.
I suppose an overt example would be Patrick Bateman from ‘American Psycho’. His body of knowledge being the clothing people wear, their haircuts, the restaurants they frequent, etc. I only recently discovered that Ellis actually made the clothes combinations in the book actually quite weird. Something that a reader whose savvy with the topic may notice but which is probably gonna go over the heads of most readers.
I’ve never read it yet. But I do recall a version of this in the film where he gives a monologue about business cards, the type of ink, the font, the thickness and material of the card, location of the letters, and what they mean.
In particular the knowledge around cardstocks and typefaces used for business cards.
A year ago in workshop a student was passing out pages. Another student, Tiffany, rubbed a page between two fingers and asked, "Is this #20 bond?" She knew her paper weights, and this demonstrated her body of knowledge. She's also an expert at Tiffany glass.
I got into fountain pens and heavy paper weight notebooks along with the writing habit because of a Neil Gaiman interview. Leuchturm1917 makes phenomenal notebooks and fountain pens dont bleed through. Also, you can write with the nib upside down to write with less ink.
I have a folder called "Random Characters Talking." If/ when a "character" starts "talking" I write down all the stuff they say. The next step is to find out the context and environment in which the character was talking—which often becomes part of the story.
If one were to be candid, one might say that they initially thought the picture heading this post was of chicken nuggets. One might further add that this is a rather unfortunate insight into their own Kentucky scented body of knowledge.
I often wonder if you can reverse engineer someone's lens by what they take at a buffet or a salad bar.
There is a friend, who I hung out with often when we were younger, who would always get three plates of food if at a buffet. He wasn't poor nor obese. The gluttony on someone else's dime used to get me worked up.
Probably said something about my lens
(Btw, I'm using that idea - Salad Bar Rorschach test)
Do your recall the forensic unpacking of travelers in "Up In the Air"? Walter Kirn has his main character berate slow people who fail to remove belts, shoes, etc. at the scanners. It's quite smart.
I toured with Walter once, and he took half my Ambien.
That's interesting. If I'm not wrong, I think Peter Sellers did that ( reverse engineer) to get to the core of a character. The key for him was figuring out how a character walks. From there he could draw everything else. Mein Fuhrer, I can walk! Might have another meaning.
Children ESPECIALLY have a specific body of knowledge. As a child I'd ask if we could leave some place, and my mom would say, "In two cigarettes" or "after one more cup of coffee." That's how we measured time. Garrison Keillor wrote about drinking only one chicken's worth of whiskey, referring to a childhood glass that had chickens stenciled up the side.
Children aren't steeped in abstract inches, hours, degrees, so they create their own systems based on their limited body of knowledge. This makes them the most entertaining characters to write, because you have to invent everything fresh.
I must say, that opening describes dicks in such a beautiful way. It rivals the epic opening to A Tale of Two Cities. But with dicks.
And I haven't read Slaves of New York but I imagine prostitutes see the world differently. In terms of marks, johns, tricks. There was a scene from Monster where Aileen was looking around a diner or bowling alley and figuring out the fetishes of a few men around her. IDK if any of this relates to your point, Chuck.
The book is an interesting study in different voices. The main through-line character is Eleanor who lives with an 80s pop artist named Stash. The title of the book comes from the idea that struggling young artists in NYC must subjugate themselves to richer, older, established people who can provide housing. What I love about the book is how easy it makes storytelling look. It still seems very fresh, even forty years after publication.
Do you ever do interviews with people who have specific work or educational backgrounds or from certain countries when you are creating a new character?
If you haven't read it, I'd recommend checking out Stud Terkel's Working. He interviews people from all walks of life. Great for generating ideas on what constitutes a character's body of knowledge.
My focus is always verbs and systems. Old systems of power failing -- beauty, humor, obedience -- and new systems replacing them. So I almost never refer to ethnic backgrounds. Verbs seem like a more effective way to connect with a larger readership.
I did once sit beside an expert in asphalt recycling and discuss that topic for an entire five-hour flight to Alaska. I wonk-out on systems.
Had a question for you, Chuck. This is a really simplistic explanation. If you had a story where a character states they have to do a certain amount of things, like finish three tasks, or find four items, is that a clock, since accomplishing/obtaining the final thing means the story will finish?
I’ve been doing a lot of investigating into gardening. Did you know you can make plumper roses with a mixture of bone meal and blood meal in aerated soil?
I've heard of bone meal. But...blood meal?
Yup. From cows, pigs, and... humans.
And the dog will dig there forever. My dog loves bone and blood meal.
What do you grow? I attempted pumpkins this year. Got a whole lot of beautiful trailing vines and some bulbs but apparently the acidity of the soil from last years runoff they never developed into fully grown pumpkins. I might try to make box beds with bought soil next year but the expense is insane.
Meal...cereal...bone...blood...serial. The killer is Tony the Tiger. Your mystery novel is solved. I didnt know he liked roses.
I find Camillas more beautiful.
They’re Grrrreeaat!!
There was a serial killer in Toronto who hid bodies in planter boxes.
That guy that lived in the dilapidated trailer? The one we talked about?
No this was a different one. He targeted gay men he met in Toronto, and the Toronto police never followed up on the missing persons cases for years. Racial bias against the victims and homophobia at the same time.
Exactly why thats who he targeted, Im sure
Yes, and he was seeking hook-ups with men for close to twenty years before he killed anyone. It was bizarre and incredibly tragic.
Known as "The Flower Pot Killer" on YouTube.
I suppose an overt example would be Patrick Bateman from ‘American Psycho’. His body of knowledge being the clothing people wear, their haircuts, the restaurants they frequent, etc. I only recently discovered that Ellis actually made the clothes combinations in the book actually quite weird. Something that a reader whose savvy with the topic may notice but which is probably gonna go over the heads of most readers.
I think I missed that. What were some of the weird clothing combos?
Pink velour cravats with yellow oxfords and a gray suit. (Im making stuff up)
I can’t recall precisely, but I think the majority were odd colour combinations.
I’ve never read it yet. But I do recall a version of this in the film where he gives a monologue about business cards, the type of ink, the font, the thickness and material of the card, location of the letters, and what they mean.
“Look at that subtle off-white coloring, the tasteful thickness off it. Oh my God, it even has a watermark.”
*Drops card.*
“Something wrong, Patrick? You’re sweating.”
Exactly.
In particular the knowledge around cardstocks and typefaces used for business cards.
A year ago in workshop a student was passing out pages. Another student, Tiffany, rubbed a page between two fingers and asked, "Is this #20 bond?" She knew her paper weights, and this demonstrated her body of knowledge. She's also an expert at Tiffany glass.
I got into fountain pens and heavy paper weight notebooks along with the writing habit because of a Neil Gaiman interview. Leuchturm1917 makes phenomenal notebooks and fountain pens dont bleed through. Also, you can write with the nib upside down to write with less ink.
I have a folder called "Random Characters Talking." If/ when a "character" starts "talking" I write down all the stuff they say. The next step is to find out the context and environment in which the character was talking—which often becomes part of the story.
If one were to be candid, one might say that they initially thought the picture heading this post was of chicken nuggets. One might further add that this is a rather unfortunate insight into their own Kentucky scented body of knowledge.
I often wonder if you can reverse engineer someone's lens by what they take at a buffet or a salad bar.
There is a friend, who I hung out with often when we were younger, who would always get three plates of food if at a buffet. He wasn't poor nor obese. The gluttony on someone else's dime used to get me worked up.
Probably said something about my lens
(Btw, I'm using that idea - Salad Bar Rorschach test)
Do your recall the forensic unpacking of travelers in "Up In the Air"? Walter Kirn has his main character berate slow people who fail to remove belts, shoes, etc. at the scanners. It's quite smart.
I toured with Walter once, and he took half my Ambien.
Yes, that was a great sequence. He thinks he's telling you about others but really telling us about him.
That's interesting. If I'm not wrong, I think Peter Sellers did that ( reverse engineer) to get to the core of a character. The key for him was figuring out how a character walks. From there he could draw everything else. Mein Fuhrer, I can walk! Might have another meaning.
In what way is a child narrator different? Just a narrower view with less knowledge? More of their nature and less of what theyve studied?
Children ESPECIALLY have a specific body of knowledge. As a child I'd ask if we could leave some place, and my mom would say, "In two cigarettes" or "after one more cup of coffee." That's how we measured time. Garrison Keillor wrote about drinking only one chicken's worth of whiskey, referring to a childhood glass that had chickens stenciled up the side.
Children aren't steeped in abstract inches, hours, degrees, so they create their own systems based on their limited body of knowledge. This makes them the most entertaining characters to write, because you have to invent everything fresh.
This is extremely valuable. Appreciate you.
I must say, that opening describes dicks in such a beautiful way. It rivals the epic opening to A Tale of Two Cities. But with dicks.
And I haven't read Slaves of New York but I imagine prostitutes see the world differently. In terms of marks, johns, tricks. There was a scene from Monster where Aileen was looking around a diner or bowling alley and figuring out the fetishes of a few men around her. IDK if any of this relates to your point, Chuck.
The book is an interesting study in different voices. The main through-line character is Eleanor who lives with an 80s pop artist named Stash. The title of the book comes from the idea that struggling young artists in NYC must subjugate themselves to richer, older, established people who can provide housing. What I love about the book is how easy it makes storytelling look. It still seems very fresh, even forty years after publication.
Do you ever do interviews with people who have specific work or educational backgrounds or from certain countries when you are creating a new character?
If you haven't read it, I'd recommend checking out Stud Terkel's Working. He interviews people from all walks of life. Great for generating ideas on what constitutes a character's body of knowledge.
I read that in high school! Studs Terkel (his estate) was repped by my agent.
My focus is always verbs and systems. Old systems of power failing -- beauty, humor, obedience -- and new systems replacing them. So I almost never refer to ethnic backgrounds. Verbs seem like a more effective way to connect with a larger readership.
I did once sit beside an expert in asphalt recycling and discuss that topic for an entire five-hour flight to Alaska. I wonk-out on systems.
Had a question for you, Chuck. This is a really simplistic explanation. If you had a story where a character states they have to do a certain amount of things, like finish three tasks, or find four items, is that a clock, since accomplishing/obtaining the final thing means the story will finish?
That is a clock because it depends on a predictable pace and end.
However, a gun can still be planted that precludes reaching the end of the clock.
Now we're talking!
My body longs for knowledge