Uncle Trash was pulling a Richard Turner in town. The bug spray and the tick. : O Had me saying OMG out loud to the book. Wonder what through the lines stuff I am overlooking in this one now after hearing about the cool bit found in This is Us, Excellent. I need to finish reading this story collection! It is good!
He went on to write the television show 'Party of Five' then wrote Nev Campbell's character as a would-be writer. Then Mark wrote himself in as a character, a writer named Mark Richard who Nev meets on a book tour. He played himself so he could get a SAG card and extra benefits. Smart guy, and very post-modern....
I think one of the only times a character’s body of knowledge is seeming accurate to the character’s age is with Stephen Dedalus from Joyce’s ‘A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man’. In fact, that’s my favorite thing about that book -- the character’s knowledge -- specifically, his vocabulary -- becoming more broad and eloquent as he ages.
In doing some redrafting on my ‘A Happy Birthday’ short story -- thank you again for the critique! -- I give the length of the metal spike holding the cake together in specific measurement by way of forensic examination that happens later and is which is stated in court. Future body of knowledge working its way in retroactivity, I guess, so that’s why I I mention it.
I’ve been meaning to pick up a copy of ‘The Ice at the Bottom of the World’. I’ll have to add it to the top of my Christmas list and hope Santa takes my bomb threat seriously to ensure that I get it.
P.S. “I know this because Tyler knows this” is a neat way of showing a character’s body of knowledge. Especially given, you know, a certain twist.
I still don't think I understand fully. You're saying to have a character state something, slip something in a story that only makes sense when the story is over? Oh god, I'm so confused right now.
And you said this was supposed to be an easy trick?? I want to use this but I am not skilled enough haha
I took it as something that makes the reader say "huh?" and hold it in mind until the detail is resolved later. And specifically by revealing a bit of the future.
I’m kinda late to reading this one, but loved it. Question. When you say “don’t get caught...” what does that entail exactly? If I had to guess, maybe you mean to not be so precise about it or over-explain in the moment and instead reveal it later? It seems that’s what you’re implying here in response to these comments, but I want to make sure I fully understand as the story I submitted definitely does it’s best to use this technique.
I agree. This seems like a technique that requires the reader to really trust the writer. It risks undermining your narrator's authority and maybe even putting a reader off. Perhaps I'm projecting some insecurities here, but unless your reader has read enough of your other work to deem you as a skilled storyteller, can you trust them to give you the benefit of the doubt and search for a deeper intent? Or are you opening yourself up to potentially being misunderstood and written off as sloppy? I suppose misinterpretation is a possibility with anything you put out into the world, but it's just a thought.
I think it depends on how much its done and how you resolve it. If you drop in one impossible detail (Innocent child knows something that violates innocence), its enough to make the reader wonder how. If the detail is referred to again as the story advances (i.e. the kid makes references to legal terms, all around the same case), then you know you are coming toward a reveal. If there is no connection to a resolution, then it would indeed be off-putting.
One film I liked along these lines was Double Indemnity. An insurance salesman tells you the ending at the beginning. The film then gives you the backstory, alternating between hope (Maybe he won't commit the crime? OK, he does but maybe he'll get away with it?), and reminders that yes, he is doomed to travel the road to perdition. Just as he told you at the beginning.
Thanks for the book recommendation - will pick up this and a book of Syd Mead's sci-fi art this week for leveling up.
I'll have to read the book to see how the flash-forward is used, I like the idea of using an unexpected detail, behavior, or bit of knowledge to set up future events.
“All stories are told after the fact”? Or all stories that are written in past tense? If it’s written in present tense how can this be true? Or applying the advice on flash forwards in a present tense story?
Book is ordered. Thank goodness for eBay. And—- it’s an ex-library book. Ding! It will be here soon. Also, momentum is REALLY building for Midwest Story night. I love watching people’s eyes grow bigger and their mouths drop when I tell them about it. Not to mention, the clutching of their hearts and following with with the following statements, “He’s one of my favorite writers! He’s probably the only one whose books I have every single one of! Omg! I’m totally gonna read.”
The story "Strays" will kill you. In a good way.
The baby on the rope broke my heart. The tree filled with snakes scared the hell out of me. What more can a story do?
Just read it.
Uncle Trash was pulling a Richard Turner in town. The bug spray and the tick. : O Had me saying OMG out loud to the book. Wonder what through the lines stuff I am overlooking in this one now after hearing about the cool bit found in This is Us, Excellent. I need to finish reading this story collection! It is good!
This is good because I’m terrible at keeping secrets.
That is a really good catch. I did not pick up on that when reading through it. I really enjoy Mark Richard's writing style and unique word choices.
He went on to write the television show 'Party of Five' then wrote Nev Campbell's character as a would-be writer. Then Mark wrote himself in as a character, a writer named Mark Richard who Nev meets on a book tour. He played himself so he could get a SAG card and extra benefits. Smart guy, and very post-modern....
I think one of the only times a character’s body of knowledge is seeming accurate to the character’s age is with Stephen Dedalus from Joyce’s ‘A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man’. In fact, that’s my favorite thing about that book -- the character’s knowledge -- specifically, his vocabulary -- becoming more broad and eloquent as he ages.
In doing some redrafting on my ‘A Happy Birthday’ short story -- thank you again for the critique! -- I give the length of the metal spike holding the cake together in specific measurement by way of forensic examination that happens later and is which is stated in court. Future body of knowledge working its way in retroactivity, I guess, so that’s why I I mention it.
I’ve been meaning to pick up a copy of ‘The Ice at the Bottom of the World’. I’ll have to add it to the top of my Christmas list and hope Santa takes my bomb threat seriously to ensure that I get it.
P.S. “I know this because Tyler knows this” is a neat way of showing a character’s body of knowledge. Especially given, you know, a certain twist.
Hah! I'm going to post later today about 'body of knowledge.'
"I will never be able to truly empathize with my father unplugging his father until I unplug him. "
Great stuff!!!
I still don't think I understand fully. You're saying to have a character state something, slip something in a story that only makes sense when the story is over? Oh god, I'm so confused right now.
And you said this was supposed to be an easy trick?? I want to use this but I am not skilled enough haha
I took it as something that makes the reader say "huh?" and hold it in mind until the detail is resolved later. And specifically by revealing a bit of the future.
Yeah. That works well
Agreed. That nails it pretty well.
I’m kinda late to reading this one, but loved it. Question. When you say “don’t get caught...” what does that entail exactly? If I had to guess, maybe you mean to not be so precise about it or over-explain in the moment and instead reveal it later? It seems that’s what you’re implying here in response to these comments, but I want to make sure I fully understand as the story I submitted definitely does it’s best to use this technique.
My greater fear is of overusing the technique. Once or twice is plenty for a short story. Beyond that it might annoy the reader.
Understood. Thanks.
I agree. This seems like a technique that requires the reader to really trust the writer. It risks undermining your narrator's authority and maybe even putting a reader off. Perhaps I'm projecting some insecurities here, but unless your reader has read enough of your other work to deem you as a skilled storyteller, can you trust them to give you the benefit of the doubt and search for a deeper intent? Or are you opening yourself up to potentially being misunderstood and written off as sloppy? I suppose misinterpretation is a possibility with anything you put out into the world, but it's just a thought.
When the risk is the rush for writer and reader. Off puts the unserious scroller, elevating & rewarding the trusting reader.
I think it depends on how much its done and how you resolve it. If you drop in one impossible detail (Innocent child knows something that violates innocence), its enough to make the reader wonder how. If the detail is referred to again as the story advances (i.e. the kid makes references to legal terms, all around the same case), then you know you are coming toward a reveal. If there is no connection to a resolution, then it would indeed be off-putting.
One film I liked along these lines was Double Indemnity. An insurance salesman tells you the ending at the beginning. The film then gives you the backstory, alternating between hope (Maybe he won't commit the crime? OK, he does but maybe he'll get away with it?), and reminders that yes, he is doomed to travel the road to perdition. Just as he told you at the beginning.
love mark richard.. :)
Thanks for the book recommendation - will pick up this and a book of Syd Mead's sci-fi art this week for leveling up.
I'll have to read the book to see how the flash-forward is used, I like the idea of using an unexpected detail, behavior, or bit of knowledge to set up future events.
Ive been wary of using the fact that the narrator is now an adult for some unknown reason. This is extremely useful.
Also, I got my copy of that book a couple days ago. Ordered it last time you mentioned it. Will dive in after I finish Selby, The Room.
“All stories are told after the fact”? Or all stories that are written in past tense? If it’s written in present tense how can this be true? Or applying the advice on flash forwards in a present tense story?
I'm thinking that having a main character's sidekick drop knowledge would also be a way of flash-fowarding, no?
Professor Palahniuk,
Book is ordered. Thank goodness for eBay. And—- it’s an ex-library book. Ding! It will be here soon. Also, momentum is REALLY building for Midwest Story night. I love watching people’s eyes grow bigger and their mouths drop when I tell them about it. Not to mention, the clutching of their hearts and following with with the following statements, “He’s one of my favorite writers! He’s probably the only one whose books I have every single one of! Omg! I’m totally gonna read.”
I’m beyond excited.
Seems like a good trick. Non-fiction novelists do it best for me. They tell the truth.