These recent gloves off posts have been a blast! Seeing all of the constructive comments in the posts and those in the comments are just one of the reasons I always look forward to new posts from this Substack.
People are flinging their stories at you like they're panties at a rock concert. See? You ARE a rock star writer, Chuck! And I know how much you prefer them with streak marks. Adds flavor.
Hello Joe -- Some background... Substack was very cagey about allowing me to review work. The legal liability of people stealing ideas loomed large. But if the sample is already "published" as in posted, it falls under fair use in copyright law. If it's published, what I do is more like a review of the work, so I'm somewhat more protected -- as is Substack.
Now the big caveat. Please do not offer up your BIG idea, here. Sharing your BIG idea is too risky; people do steal, even inadvertently. Instead, offer up a B-list story or scene, and learn by feedback about that less-precious idea. The Gloves Off forum is about exploring skills that you can apply to your BIG idea in privacy. In a perfect world you'll execute your BIG idea and get launched and make movies and money and overdose.
But that's why I look for links to published work. Even posted on a website -- Substack or otherwise -- is good. But no BIG ideas, okay? Keep your heart buried.
This is tricky. Because what I wanted to submit was gonna be published under a pen name. So it wasn't going to be my BIG IDEA. I don't even think I got those. But it would feel weird if I posted it directly on my Substack cause I'm using my actual name. Fuck. Would I have to create an entirely new account, subscribe from that account, and share it from there? I actually kinda like that idea.
I'll be honest, I really wanted you to look at a sex scene I wrote but I'm not entirely sure if Substack allows it. As long as it's for artistic expression? I don't know. The rules are kinda vague. Which was why I asked about it being on a Google Doc. But then again, you'll have to post it to Substack eventually! Aside from that, would you be okay reviewing a sex scene? So many hurdles.
Side note. I can’t wait to get launched, make movies and money, overdose, get clean and then bitter. Marry a woman half my age. Move to the south of France and raise parrots which I then train to talk shit. Release a tell all autobiography. Relapse. Divorce. Remarry. Donate my parrots to orphanages. And finally, pick a fight with a total stranger and lose.
I’m too anxious to read this right now…I need an hour (or more) of quiet time to really absorb all of the feedback. So for now: Chuck, endless gratitude for doing this. To know that an author I admire above all others even READ something I wrote - let alone took the time to give a detailed critique - is more than I could have dreamt when I started writing more frequently about a year ago. In the past I said something along the lines of “I’m just hanging over the edge of my crib, spreading shit on the walls and hoping someone who matters pays attention.” And here we are…
I need to take a walk, and a breath. Beyond excited to dive deep into this Gloves Off first thing in the morning.
I had the exact same reaction. I must have read my feedback like three times because none of it was sinking in. It’s been a few days now and I think my brain is ready to digest it.
Great story as well! Looking forward to the next iteration!
Thanks Saul! I decided the formula for calculating how many times I'm going to read Chuck's feedback is "N+1". But I'm risking over analysis, so the next revision is under way....
Thanks Erik! I'm working on a "version two" using Chuck's input...and then I'll just need to find a new audience to read it, since prior readers already know what's coming.
My understanding is that horses are similar to themes. The horses you start your journey with and the ones you keep until the end. Chuck talks about finding different ways of saying the same thing, which is something I'm still struggling to figure out. Maybe it's about having each element of your story be a reflection of the theme.
Agreed with Brandan—a blast indeed! I enjoyed both the story and the inputs, which are immensely useful as always. And I love your humor, images, and misdirection, Bryan. Bravo! 👏
I looked at it not too long ago. It’s helpful, but the problem is there are also a lot of not so good examples that make it confusing. Also noticed that a lot of examples are just idioms… I might take some time and really start building that library and then publish it here. I think we could all benefit from them , big time.
In nonfiction, yeah, try to use physical verbs for cognitive processes. But in fiction you can really tailor your physical verbs to the narrator or POV character. The rustic cultural verbs for a specific person help depict who they are. The hillbilly "chew the fat" in place of thinking, for instance. Or in 'Shock Induction' I use "An idea was burning a hole in her pocket" to introduce a troubling idea for a character.
What was the phrase that you use, that Tom used, for the big emotional event from a character's past that drives them/makes them the way that they are?
I'm writing this stuff for two characters, and can't recall/find what you called it.
Throwing this in the ring...
https://vinceroman.substack.com/p/oink?r=1b51j
A lamb to the slaughter...
Taking my shot
https://drewclements.substack.com/p/no-caffeine
These recent gloves off posts have been a blast! Seeing all of the constructive comments in the posts and those in the comments are just one of the reasons I always look forward to new posts from this Substack.
(Linking a short story of mine here for a potential Gloves off because I can’t seem to find the original post: https://open.substack.com/pub/brandanhingleylovatt/p/snip?r=t5ium&utm_medium=ios)
You're back!
“Reports of my demise have been greatly exaggerated.”
People are flinging their stories at you like they're panties at a rock concert. See? You ARE a rock star writer, Chuck! And I know how much you prefer them with streak marks. Adds flavor.
For future reference, if I submit something, can it be in a Google Doc? All the recent submissions are from Substack and I was wondering.
Hello Joe -- Some background... Substack was very cagey about allowing me to review work. The legal liability of people stealing ideas loomed large. But if the sample is already "published" as in posted, it falls under fair use in copyright law. If it's published, what I do is more like a review of the work, so I'm somewhat more protected -- as is Substack.
Now the big caveat. Please do not offer up your BIG idea, here. Sharing your BIG idea is too risky; people do steal, even inadvertently. Instead, offer up a B-list story or scene, and learn by feedback about that less-precious idea. The Gloves Off forum is about exploring skills that you can apply to your BIG idea in privacy. In a perfect world you'll execute your BIG idea and get launched and make movies and money and overdose.
But that's why I look for links to published work. Even posted on a website -- Substack or otherwise -- is good. But no BIG ideas, okay? Keep your heart buried.
This is tricky. Because what I wanted to submit was gonna be published under a pen name. So it wasn't going to be my BIG IDEA. I don't even think I got those. But it would feel weird if I posted it directly on my Substack cause I'm using my actual name. Fuck. Would I have to create an entirely new account, subscribe from that account, and share it from there? I actually kinda like that idea.
I'll be honest, I really wanted you to look at a sex scene I wrote but I'm not entirely sure if Substack allows it. As long as it's for artistic expression? I don't know. The rules are kinda vague. Which was why I asked about it being on a Google Doc. But then again, you'll have to post it to Substack eventually! Aside from that, would you be okay reviewing a sex scene? So many hurdles.
What wonderful advice. That’s kick ass, Chuck.
Side note. I can’t wait to get launched, make movies and money, overdose, get clean and then bitter. Marry a woman half my age. Move to the south of France and raise parrots which I then train to talk shit. Release a tell all autobiography. Relapse. Divorce. Remarry. Donate my parrots to orphanages. And finally, pick a fight with a total stranger and lose.
Perfect.
In sales, you don't ever make up a lead's mind for them.
Today I learned that in writing, you don't ever make up a reader's mind for them.
I’m too anxious to read this right now…I need an hour (or more) of quiet time to really absorb all of the feedback. So for now: Chuck, endless gratitude for doing this. To know that an author I admire above all others even READ something I wrote - let alone took the time to give a detailed critique - is more than I could have dreamt when I started writing more frequently about a year ago. In the past I said something along the lines of “I’m just hanging over the edge of my crib, spreading shit on the walls and hoping someone who matters pays attention.” And here we are…
I need to take a walk, and a breath. Beyond excited to dive deep into this Gloves Off first thing in the morning.
I had the exact same reaction. I must have read my feedback like three times because none of it was sinking in. It’s been a few days now and I think my brain is ready to digest it.
Great story as well! Looking forward to the next iteration!
Thanks Saul! I decided the formula for calculating how many times I'm going to read Chuck's feedback is "N+1". But I'm risking over analysis, so the next revision is under way....
I’m glad you submitted this one Bryan. I read it a few weeks back but liked it even more the second time around. Well done, good sir.
Thanks Erik! I'm working on a "version two" using Chuck's input...and then I'll just need to find a new audience to read it, since prior readers already know what's coming.
“Horses” is a new one for me. I’m reading “I Loved You More” and saw Tom reference it too. I’m curious what exactly it means.
My understanding is that horses are similar to themes. The horses you start your journey with and the ones you keep until the end. Chuck talks about finding different ways of saying the same thing, which is something I'm still struggling to figure out. Maybe it's about having each element of your story be a reflection of the theme.
Thanks!
“A cemetery is all numbers and proper nouns, so I seldom recall more than the flowers and headstone shapes.”
So good! So many good tips.
Agreed with Brandan—a blast indeed! I enjoyed both the story and the inputs, which are immensely useful as always. And I love your humor, images, and misdirection, Bryan. Bravo! 👏
Thank you, Joan!
Hey Chuck, whatever happened to the library of thought-verb replacements? I could really use them in a neat PDF file.
Exactly! That's why we built that library...
"Then it struck me, how Shelly wasn't my friend."
Melissa asked herself why.
Replace abstract thought verbs with physical ones that do a better job.
I looked at it not too long ago. It’s helpful, but the problem is there are also a lot of not so good examples that make it confusing. Also noticed that a lot of examples are just idioms… I might take some time and really start building that library and then publish it here. I think we could all benefit from them , big time.
would love to be considered:
https://open.substack.com/pub/aurimuir/p/informed-consent?r=3o8z9t&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&showWelcomeOnShare=true
Thanks! Next time be faster on the draw!
Just curious, Chuck, how many of these guides (submerge the I, eliminating thought verbs, horses, etc.) apply to non-fiction writing as well?
In nonfiction, yeah, try to use physical verbs for cognitive processes. But in fiction you can really tailor your physical verbs to the narrator or POV character. The rustic cultural verbs for a specific person help depict who they are. The hillbilly "chew the fat" in place of thinking, for instance. Or in 'Shock Induction' I use "An idea was burning a hole in her pocket" to introduce a troubling idea for a character.
Hope that helps.
What was the phrase that you use, that Tom used, for the big emotional event from a character's past that drives them/makes them the way that they are?
I'm writing this stuff for two characters, and can't recall/find what you called it.