Wrist toward the knuckles for back of the hand, like wiping sweat off your forehead. Or with a sleeve, a few inches above the wrist to the wrist. I wouldn't start all the way back at the elbow. That feels awkward (yeah, I tried it). Although the direction may depend on which nostril needs wiping. Maybe a short little double wipe in each direction to get both nostrils.
Makes sense to wipe elbow to wrist, but if I'm trying to catch some snot before it falls out of my nose, it's easier to get my wrist to my face more quickly—wrist to elbow would be the logical motion.
In the context of the character in the story, I imagine he may be wearing a heavy jacket in the cold environment. If so, there may not be an issue regarding a sleeve sliding since heavier clothing tends to be more stationary. Also, the narrator/protagonist asks the old man "You palsied like the boy?"
This line suggests there may be some observable handicap. If so the "boy" might perform actions in ways not considered to be "average."
Ya know, I’ve pondering it all day, and I’m thinking if it’s my forehead, my answer stands. If it’s my nose, I just hold my arm out and move my face back and forth across it. Now I’m going to think about how I wipe my face for the rest of my life.
The style of this story is probably different than what I usually read or write myself. And maybe that's also one of the reasons why I really enjoyed it so much.
Nice one, Jefferson. Well done, man.
Also, the illustration is a sheer beauty. Did you draw that too?
Thank you very much. The wonderful illustration was done by an artist named Kiki Kita. At painting or drawing, I’ve as much talent as I have rhythm. Which is to say none.
Noice. Well, if you get the chance, please tell Kiki the feeling is that she understands colours the way a chef understands spices. Her work makes me wanna step into the canvas and peek in. Just to check what's the vibe like in that world.
Incredible. There isn’t another author on your plane as generous with his time. It’s not in vain; there isn’t another on mine who takes it more seriously. My issues with narration and voice in this story are immediately clear. (They are knocking me between the eyes, gloves off.) Of course my mind is stuck there. I shall return to the rest. The feedback is precious. Thank you.
Note, I've no objection to lavish language, but someone should own it. Like how the old man owns the language in his speech.
An aside, with lethal injections, I've always wondered if the administrator says, "This will hurt me more than it does you" or "This will feel just like a bee sting."
Oh my god, I forgot "submerge the I." That's my favorite rule too. Didn't think that was a Lish rule though. Chuck said he got that from Peter Christopher when Tom invited him to the workshops.
Better to say "no abstract measurements." We all perceive a 100-degree day differently. So how does your character in particular perceive such a day?
Doug Coupland once described a nuclear bomb blast "like opening a million oven doors at the same time." That's so memorable because it takes something I know (opening that oven) and bridges it to something I can't imagine (a nuclear blast). And that's something you can't grasp from an abstract such as 100,000,000 degrees C.
Re-reading the feedback, I hung my head at “I killed a man” being clunky. The number of times I reworded that piece of dialogue…
I see it. The overstep coming out to the observation crowd, the missed attribution opportunities. And especially the sloppiness with which the more distinctive language is tossed about without regard to the mouth in which it belongs. I’ll get there, I’ll get there.
A relevant aside: I worked in Oklahoma when Clayton Lockett was executed in 2014. Long after he was supposed to be unconscious, immobile, and dying, he moved, rose from the table, and even tried to speak. Forty-three minutes passed before he died of heart attack.
Hey, I just want you to pay-off those oncoming headlights! Wouldn't it be creepy if that light were the flashlight the doctor shines in your eyes to see if the pupils dilate? Bridge unlikely things -- headlights and that death-checking flashlight -- and you'll scare us silly.
I love this story and was psyched to see it get the tactile treatment. Whatever you do with what you’ve learned, please repost. I look forward to the results.
My favorite part was when I began to discover that the whole discombobulating, disorienting, dreamlike drive was Mr. Taylor being put to death by lethal injection!!!! Whattt!!????!! Woah.
Yes, it took me to the end and then another read to be Sure, but I loved how the meaning of the words changed the second time through--knowing what I knew.
I especially love the encounter with the bridge keepers. It terrifies me that when dying, one could be both so very alone or option 2, come across these men... Hard for me to explain eloquently, but in caveman: me like this part! keep. keep!
Chuck made some great notes about where your dialogue does a good job of increasing tension; a good lesson for me too. Also, Chuck had some great pointers about abstracts (something I am constantly consciously battling in my own writing).
I love Chuck's idea about a flashback while driving. Funny, I was just thinking about how your brain zones out on the highway sometimes and when you come to it's like ten miles later. But I would like to know a bit more about the character, and the flashback might be the place for it.
Thank you, Jefferson! Great job! Love the art too! There's a kid observing...Haunting!
For future Gloves Off stories, if we dislike some aspect and give our reason, are we allowed to voice that here? Everyone usually loves them and I don't wanna be the outlier lol
And I marvel at your ability to go through a story and find the positives. It's a skill that I wish I had. Usually the first encounter of boredom or complex sentence structure or long flashbacks tend to make me stop. But if I like the idea, I'll usually give it a second chance.
Good question. In workshops I've always asked people not to talk down an aspect of a story unless they could also suggest a "fix" that's organic to it. Meaning, a fix that doesn't require bringing big, new elements to the story, but draws on what's already present.
Question for Chuck. Have you thought about taking a short story, like something from Amy or Peter Christopher or Denis Johnson or Nami Mun and going through one of their stories in the Gloves Off format, giving your thoughts on what works in a short piece of theirs?
Loved the use of the Zeno-esque paradoxes sprinkled throughout the story: the endless multiplying of trees, the fractional turn of the wheels, etc.
As a reader, it added a fantastical element to the story without taking it completely out of reality, if that makes sense. There’s the looming sense that something isn’t quite right without you needing to address it. Hard to achieve (at least in my experience). Great job!
I think the idea of overexplaining is worth a lot more examination. How much is it necessary to tell the reader and how much to withhold? I remember when I started as a novelist I explained far too much. Now, ten novels on, I try and explain as little as possible without ever sacrificing clarity. Certainly over explaining - or too much voice - is one of the main difficulties that novice writers struggle with. Thanks Chuck.
With every detail, ask yourself: Will this be used? Unless the character eats it, touches it, etc., don't include it. And if you avoid "is" and "have" you're forced to move your character through a world of limited objects/details.
Keep in mind that excess/inappropriate description trivializes and cuts drama, so it creates humor. Thus, "Condemned serial killer Brenda Simpson walked to the gallows wearing a simple Anne Klein pants suit of powder-blue gabardine with a nipped waist and soft, unconstructed shoulders, worn over a silk Bill Blass chemise..."
Quick idea, Chuck: I often find myself with questions I’d like to ask you, and nowhere to ask them. Might you consider a weekly or monthly “office hours” type open post on here for collecting craft questions that don’t fit anywhere else?
The one that’s been on my mind for a couple weeks is: How would you write Dune? Doesn’t have to be Dune, but I’m just thinking about expansive, operatic, philosophical, geopolitical type books, and the question is: in an alternate universe where you had written Dune, what would that book be like? How would you have successfully connected the visceral, present, on-the-body stuff to the Big Idea stuff? What would be different in that version of Dune? What would you have to change in your normal habits or style to accommodate a story like that?
This is an example of the type of question an open Q&A thread might accommodate.
Hey, this is only my first year. I want to hammer on basic stuff, but if you internalize the basics you can write anything epic or not with greater effectiveness. And I worry that asking/answering questions might replace actual writing.
It's my ankle weights metaphor (in high school our basketball coach made me wear ankle weights for a summer so I'd play better as a center). Even short-term adherence to Lish's rules will yield long-term rewards. You won't have to always follow the rules, but you'll give more thought to future choices as you write.
Ankle weights made me feel uncomfortable. I guess that's the point. Wore them once. Felt like something had me by the ankles and was trying to pull me down to hell haha
Thanks for all you do. Your writing alone is a gift, but your massive contributions to teaching the craft and supporting others trying to build theirs is something really special and unique in the world, I really appreciate it. It's helped me a lot, and I expect it to continue helping me, and I'm confident I'm in a crowded field of people who feel the same. Thank you.
I loved how dreamy this was throughout. It gave me Tim Burton vibes! Especially loved the mystical description of what lies past the bridge. Very creative imagery to come up with. One of my favorite things is when a story can go into a zone of modern folklore. Very awesome. And the end gave me this great rush when I realized what was actually happening. Where the character was, and how he’s snapping in between two states of consciousness. Again, super creative.
I've been reading Haruki Murakami's Hard Boiled Wonderland and the End of the World, and it gave me that kind of vibe. That otherworldly dream kinda thing. That, and the dialogue gave me No Country for Old Men tension.
Really enjoyed it, and I enjoyed the slightly less minimal approach.
Awesome work.
And also, I'd wipe wrist to elbow. But like other people have said, probably more finger to wrist.
Do you wipe from elbow to wrist? Or from wrist to elbow? Weigh in.
I'd say I'd probably go wrist to finger. But yeah, direction-wise, definitely elbow to wrist.
Wrist to elbow, any cold day.
Sleeveless: wrist to elbow. Sleeved: elbow to wrist. Something about using the cloth.
Wrist to elbow!!
But more like top of hand to wrist.
Wrist toward the knuckles for back of the hand, like wiping sweat off your forehead. Or with a sleeve, a few inches above the wrist to the wrist. I wouldn't start all the way back at the elbow. That feels awkward (yeah, I tried it). Although the direction may depend on which nostril needs wiping. Maybe a short little double wipe in each direction to get both nostrils.
Can't say I've ever analyzed it this much before.
Makes sense to wipe elbow to wrist, but if I'm trying to catch some snot before it falls out of my nose, it's easier to get my wrist to my face more quickly—wrist to elbow would be the logical motion.
In the context of the character in the story, I imagine he may be wearing a heavy jacket in the cold environment. If so, there may not be an issue regarding a sleeve sliding since heavier clothing tends to be more stationary. Also, the narrator/protagonist asks the old man "You palsied like the boy?"
This line suggests there may be some observable handicap. If so the "boy" might perform actions in ways not considered to be "average."
Ya know, I’ve pondering it all day, and I’m thinking if it’s my forehead, my answer stands. If it’s my nose, I just hold my arm out and move my face back and forth across it. Now I’m going to think about how I wipe my face for the rest of my life.
Basically we all need a box of Kleenex...
Jake, I keep thinking about it every time too. And now I’m wiping my face on my arm way more frequently than usual. Thanks a lot, Jefferson! 😄
Yeah, and like trying to pick different spots so you’re not following some Pavlovian directive. This is why I stopped studying psychology.
Aren't you glad he was wiping his nose and not his butt? Imagine this conversation then.
Front to back!!!!!!!
For the love of God, front to back!!!!!
Try teaching this to a three-year-old.
I have. ;)
Elbow to wrist for me.
The style of this story is probably different than what I usually read or write myself. And maybe that's also one of the reasons why I really enjoyed it so much.
Nice one, Jefferson. Well done, man.
Also, the illustration is a sheer beauty. Did you draw that too?
Thank you very much. The wonderful illustration was done by an artist named Kiki Kita. At painting or drawing, I’ve as much talent as I have rhythm. Which is to say none.
Noice. Well, if you get the chance, please tell Kiki the feeling is that she understands colours the way a chef understands spices. Her work makes me wanna step into the canvas and peek in. Just to check what's the vibe like in that world.
Incredible. There isn’t another author on your plane as generous with his time. It’s not in vain; there isn’t another on mine who takes it more seriously. My issues with narration and voice in this story are immediately clear. (They are knocking me between the eyes, gloves off.) Of course my mind is stuck there. I shall return to the rest. The feedback is precious. Thank you.
Note, I've no objection to lavish language, but someone should own it. Like how the old man owns the language in his speech.
An aside, with lethal injections, I've always wondered if the administrator says, "This will hurt me more than it does you" or "This will feel just like a bee sting."
First I want to hammer you with old school Lish rules. Beyond that you may do as you please.
I think I've memorized some of the rules by now.
No dreams sequences.
No latinate words.
No thought verbs.
No exact measurements.
Burn the language, use only the language your character would use.
End sentences on dental consonants.
That's all I can think right now.
Oh my god, I forgot "submerge the I." That's my favorite rule too. Didn't think that was a Lish rule though. Chuck said he got that from Peter Christopher when Tom invited him to the workshops.
Better to say "no abstract measurements." We all perceive a 100-degree day differently. So how does your character in particular perceive such a day?
Doug Coupland once described a nuclear bomb blast "like opening a million oven doors at the same time." That's so memorable because it takes something I know (opening that oven) and bridges it to something I can't imagine (a nuclear blast). And that's something you can't grasp from an abstract such as 100,000,000 degrees C.
Re-reading the feedback, I hung my head at “I killed a man” being clunky. The number of times I reworded that piece of dialogue…
I see it. The overstep coming out to the observation crowd, the missed attribution opportunities. And especially the sloppiness with which the more distinctive language is tossed about without regard to the mouth in which it belongs. I’ll get there, I’ll get there.
A relevant aside: I worked in Oklahoma when Clayton Lockett was executed in 2014. Long after he was supposed to be unconscious, immobile, and dying, he moved, rose from the table, and even tried to speak. Forty-three minutes passed before he died of heart attack.
Ouch. Imagine the horror and chaos of that scene.
Hey, I just want you to pay-off those oncoming headlights! Wouldn't it be creepy if that light were the flashlight the doctor shines in your eyes to see if the pupils dilate? Bridge unlikely things -- headlights and that death-checking flashlight -- and you'll scare us silly.
I love this story and was psyched to see it get the tactile treatment. Whatever you do with what you’ve learned, please repost. I look forward to the results.
Thanks, Jake.
Thanks for sharing your story, Jefferson!
My favorite part was when I began to discover that the whole discombobulating, disorienting, dreamlike drive was Mr. Taylor being put to death by lethal injection!!!! Whattt!!????!! Woah.
Yes, it took me to the end and then another read to be Sure, but I loved how the meaning of the words changed the second time through--knowing what I knew.
I especially love the encounter with the bridge keepers. It terrifies me that when dying, one could be both so very alone or option 2, come across these men... Hard for me to explain eloquently, but in caveman: me like this part! keep. keep!
Chuck made some great notes about where your dialogue does a good job of increasing tension; a good lesson for me too. Also, Chuck had some great pointers about abstracts (something I am constantly consciously battling in my own writing).
I love Chuck's idea about a flashback while driving. Funny, I was just thinking about how your brain zones out on the highway sometimes and when you come to it's like ten miles later. But I would like to know a bit more about the character, and the flashback might be the place for it.
Thank you, Jefferson! Great job! Love the art too! There's a kid observing...Haunting!
For future Gloves Off stories, if we dislike some aspect and give our reason, are we allowed to voice that here? Everyone usually loves them and I don't wanna be the outlier lol
And I marvel at your ability to go through a story and find the positives. It's a skill that I wish I had. Usually the first encounter of boredom or complex sentence structure or long flashbacks tend to make me stop. But if I like the idea, I'll usually give it a second chance.
And in other news, I can sub to you again.
Yay!!
Good question. In workshops I've always asked people not to talk down an aspect of a story unless they could also suggest a "fix" that's organic to it. Meaning, a fix that doesn't require bringing big, new elements to the story, but draws on what's already present.
Question for Chuck. Have you thought about taking a short story, like something from Amy or Peter Christopher or Denis Johnson or Nami Mun and going through one of their stories in the Gloves Off format, giving your thoughts on what works in a short piece of theirs?
Damn, I'd love to, but I... I should.
Loved the use of the Zeno-esque paradoxes sprinkled throughout the story: the endless multiplying of trees, the fractional turn of the wheels, etc.
As a reader, it added a fantastical element to the story without taking it completely out of reality, if that makes sense. There’s the looming sense that something isn’t quite right without you needing to address it. Hard to achieve (at least in my experience). Great job!
Just ordered two books off Amazon. I'm getting them on the 6th. Make Something Up and The Collected Stories of Amy Hempel.
Have you read 'Miles from Nowhere' by Nami Mun? Hard to find, but you'll reread it forever.
I thought about it. Added it to my cart. I also still gotta get Heartburn.
I think the idea of overexplaining is worth a lot more examination. How much is it necessary to tell the reader and how much to withhold? I remember when I started as a novelist I explained far too much. Now, ten novels on, I try and explain as little as possible without ever sacrificing clarity. Certainly over explaining - or too much voice - is one of the main difficulties that novice writers struggle with. Thanks Chuck.
With every detail, ask yourself: Will this be used? Unless the character eats it, touches it, etc., don't include it. And if you avoid "is" and "have" you're forced to move your character through a world of limited objects/details.
Keep in mind that excess/inappropriate description trivializes and cuts drama, so it creates humor. Thus, "Condemned serial killer Brenda Simpson walked to the gallows wearing a simple Anne Klein pants suit of powder-blue gabardine with a nipped waist and soft, unconstructed shoulders, worn over a silk Bill Blass chemise..."
Thanks Chuck. As George Saunders says, you should imagine the reader saying 'why are you telling me this'. You're advice is quite brilliant btw.
I've recommended your thread on the Writing Bootcamp. Any chance you could reciprocate?
Only if you like the Boot Camp of course!
Great job Jefferson, and thank you so much Chuck!
Quick idea, Chuck: I often find myself with questions I’d like to ask you, and nowhere to ask them. Might you consider a weekly or monthly “office hours” type open post on here for collecting craft questions that don’t fit anywhere else?
The one that’s been on my mind for a couple weeks is: How would you write Dune? Doesn’t have to be Dune, but I’m just thinking about expansive, operatic, philosophical, geopolitical type books, and the question is: in an alternate universe where you had written Dune, what would that book be like? How would you have successfully connected the visceral, present, on-the-body stuff to the Big Idea stuff? What would be different in that version of Dune? What would you have to change in your normal habits or style to accommodate a story like that?
This is an example of the type of question an open Q&A thread might accommodate.
Hey, this is only my first year. I want to hammer on basic stuff, but if you internalize the basics you can write anything epic or not with greater effectiveness. And I worry that asking/answering questions might replace actual writing.
It's my ankle weights metaphor (in high school our basketball coach made me wear ankle weights for a summer so I'd play better as a center). Even short-term adherence to Lish's rules will yield long-term rewards. You won't have to always follow the rules, but you'll give more thought to future choices as you write.
Thanks to those stupid ankle weights I got good at catching rebounds under the basket and putting them up for points.
Ankle weights made me feel uncomfortable. I guess that's the point. Wore them once. Felt like something had me by the ankles and was trying to pull me down to hell haha
Teach me how to write my Infinite Jest. I wanna win one of those fancy dancy Poolitzer prizes!
Thanks for all you do. Your writing alone is a gift, but your massive contributions to teaching the craft and supporting others trying to build theirs is something really special and unique in the world, I really appreciate it. It's helped me a lot, and I expect it to continue helping me, and I'm confident I'm in a crowded field of people who feel the same. Thank you.
How do you feel about writers submitting flash fiction type stuff for Gloves Off?
500
1000
or 1500 words
I loved how dreamy this was throughout. It gave me Tim Burton vibes! Especially loved the mystical description of what lies past the bridge. Very creative imagery to come up with. One of my favorite things is when a story can go into a zone of modern folklore. Very awesome. And the end gave me this great rush when I realized what was actually happening. Where the character was, and how he’s snapping in between two states of consciousness. Again, super creative.
Ah man, this was so good!
I've been reading Haruki Murakami's Hard Boiled Wonderland and the End of the World, and it gave me that kind of vibe. That otherworldly dream kinda thing. That, and the dialogue gave me No Country for Old Men tension.
Really enjoyed it, and I enjoyed the slightly less minimal approach.
Awesome work.
And also, I'd wipe wrist to elbow. But like other people have said, probably more finger to wrist.