Aaaaaghhhhhh!!!! Thank you, Chuck! I hooted so loud I probably woke up the neighbors. Thank you for all the specific feedback I can use to make it better by incorporating sex and possibly more death.
I think it’s clear where I was trying to be too clever and it bit me for not staying consistent.
I was trying to have the looking into the camera narrator thing from third person and it flopped. This is also a good lesson for me in reading the whole piece after revisions for consistency. I really appreciate your feedback and time in reading my story!
What you say about the series of 3 completing too much energy is definitely true. You can feel it when it happens. But are there any situations where a series of three works better than a series of two or four or just a single item?
I loved the fact that you were nudging parts of the story to go into a dirty direction. Sexy times or rubbing one out. Very visceral. As I was reading that, I was thinking, "That'd be so gripping!" Pun intended.
Chuck, is that why you like to give people the last word? So that you can become that likeable underdog? I'm onto your secrets!
I noticed that the author uses "um" and "uh" in their lines of dialogue. How do you feel about that? Do you think the lines would be more concise by limiting them or simply removing them?
Small point here. Barry and Bobby sound very much alike. I learned that similar sounding names can potentially confuse readers. And when I read the name Bobby, my mind had to take a few seconds to figure out who that was. Your substitute name, "tweed jacket" is a pretty solid choice.
And the line about the plunger sucking up the turd at the gas station bathroom...made me laugh.
Just wanna say, I appreciate the hell out of what you're doing on your Substack. You're really going above and beyond. To me, you have earned more thanks than we can afford to give. So, for what it's worth, thank you again. For taking the time out of your day, your precious time, to help improve our writing and to feed us insatiable little subscribers new content!
A foil is a character you've inserted in a story simply to prompt or deliver information. Sherlock Holmes can't directly address the reader so we must have Dr. Watson to ask leading questions and to ask questions on behalf of the reader. Nancy Drew had the sidekick character "George."
In theater I believe such a character is called "a feed," as in someone who ask prompts such as, "Then why did you marry the prince?" or "What are you going to do about it?"
Yes, it's a big no-no. It's easy for alone characters to do a lot of thinking and wondering and worrying. Unless...your character is doing something fascinating. Like drugs or masturbating. Preferably, both at the same time. You'll be hitting all the cylinders.
Keep this on the down-low but I know it’s a no-no for Chuck; I’m trying to preemptively lower his expectations. My short story focuses on one character and contains one line of dialogue. Fortunately it kind of hits on the “fascinating” things you mentioned, but still...
No bone thrown for he who writes about the dreaded character alone.
I have not received the cursed jewel yet, but I keep hearing knocking sounds coming from the walls at night and there’s a lingering smell of sulfur in the air. A sign that it’s on its way for sure.
It's perhaps the biggest no-no. Keep in mind that a reader is reading alone, so most readers (I'd wager) want a faux social experience of seeing characters who aren't alone.
The more i use these minimalism rules the more i wonder how boring a "maximalism" story would be, using the exact opposite rules. Could be kinda fun to write though, less fun to glove off it.
Consider that you can do both. You can seem to do elaborate language -- my novel 'Pygmy' for instance -- but keep the elements very limited. The characters, actions, objects. So despite the richness of language you get the escalation that comes from keeping limited elements coming back.
An interesting thing I kept finding myself drawn to was that the story takes place on Christmas. I kept thinking about Scrooge from The Christmas Carol; for some reason, your story was giving me the same vibe, which I quite liked.
The bird thread you have going is neat and unique. I had to look up what an ornithologist was, but once I had the definition handy, the bird knowledge really clicked, and of course a guy who’s into birds is going to have on that filter no matter what he’s doing. (Side note, my grandpa Harlan is a serious bird watcher, so much so that you do not want to be a passenger in his car--he is watching the sky more closely than the road!!)
I am digging Chuck’s advice on keeping the action present. About not stealing your own thunder; how much to tell the reader and when. And also on the three’s thing. I am always thinking/writing in threes and now I will end on a two to build tension like Chuck suggested.
Thank you again for sharing. I love how all of us can learn through specific examples from each other’s work.
Thank you for reading and I'm glad you liked it! I'm going to need a moment to consider all of Chuck's feedback and figure out what will and won't work for this story. I think I've got a good start and reworking the wonky bits will pay off well. :)
I really enjoyed the metaphors in this one as well. I can’t wait to hear you sprinkle more in about the pigeons and tie it all together at the end. Also, I really liked how you used italicized font for the Big Voice. That is a nice trick.
Chuck,
A few times you mentioned ideas for painting more physical action. I’ve heard you talk about thinking it of a camera in a movie. One trick I’ve started to do is to not only imagine the scene as if I’m watching it as a movie (where the camera goes, what moves, etc.) but I also try to then write out the scene as though I’m describing it to someone who is sitting next to me wearing a blindfold. I’ve found this helps a lot -- especially if I do it fast, as if the scene is moving that quickly. It’s helped me to not overthink and to use natural phrasing. It’s like those cooperative group exercises they’d have in school where you’re on a team and only one kid can see the object that the teacher has built and that kid has to describe it to the other kids so that they can build it right.
Yes! Did you do the writing exercise in school where the teacher showed a kitchen utensil and the students had to use objective, physical language to communicate that object? It's a good project.
You can't name the utensil or its use. Nor can you use pejorative language. Suddenly a slotted spoon becomes a challenge.
I didn't have to do that one but in a brief moment of clarity last night I think i figured out how to incorporate your ideas of including sex and drugs into the story without making it gratuitous. I will definitely post a link when the new version is ready for outside eyes. Thank you again for taking the time to read and provide great feedback. I really appreciate it!
Ohhh no I never had that exercise. That would be tough! This one was in wood shop class and the teacher had built this object in another room that was made up of popsicle sticks and pipe cleaners and PVC pipe and other nonsense like that. Everyone had the same parts in their team table. Total nightmare for the communicator haha.
I enjoyed "Martha" and think with some tweaking it will be an even better story. Like Chuck, I also felt that the set-up of the steep no-railing stairway was somewhat of a Checkov's gun that didn't fire. I expected Barry to fall to his death while making his escape from the house, joining Martha.
And unless you want the reader to immediately think of "The Golden Girls" I'd change the name of Shady Pines.
Thanks, Roy! There is definitely tweaking to be done and I need to figure out which of Chekov's guns will go off (driving in snow, stairs, introduce a sex partner that will die) and see what happens.
Agreed on the steep stairs too. When I read through the first time I desperately wanted something bad to happen during the back half of the story. One thought: maybe Barry got the job because his predecessor died falling down the stairs, so they're a constant source of tension/fear for him.
This is why so much of my fiction takes place in bathrooms and airplane cabins. Little or no description is needed, people fill in the blanks. But if you set events in a palace you can get trapped by description.
Note how in "The Haunting of Hill House" Shirley Jackson keeps most of her description for the "house tour" chapter. Even then the characters are moving through the rooms, dancing, jumping from unsafe stairs, smelling stuff, she never lapses into passive "is" description. Always characters moving, talking, smelling.
Because certain description is tricky for me. For first-person stories, some people want details to visualize the main character. But...how would a first-person character describe herself without sounding weird? Because looking in a mirror and listing off details is odd. Nobody would do that in real life.
The flip side to that is to not describe the physical details of a character. This makes it easier for the reader to supplant themselves in the protagonist's place.
And setting. Yes. Having a character go through a setting, using those action verbs, make description pop. But again, I think I just write it odd. For example, "I tiptoed across the hardwood floor." Just feels weird adding details like that because I know when I'm telling a story, I never say it like that.
Try “The floor boards squeaked beneath my feet.” Or “That damn floor board, squeaking again.” Then you submerge the “I” too. But only include the detail if it matters. If the narrator needs to be quiet or the floor will squeak later and cause conflict. Or if it’s something the character would notice because of their professional or obsessions, etc.
I rarely include description of my characters, and sometimes readers complain to me about this, but usually I won’t include unless I think it adds to the story. I like to imagine myself as the main character while I read, so I just insert myself. Lol.
Martha, Martha... That was also the name of the SMG shooter in Scarface when they're about to chop Tony with the saw. She stuck in my mind as the most scarry character of the whole movie.
I don't want to be repeating Chuck's excellent advice and observations.
So here are mine.
I liked you used death as an initiator for a new life. It also works with the snow, as winter is like a death (metaphorically). Maybe it would better work with early spring and sudden blizzard to suggest new times? Or don't tell and show daffodils now destroyed by snow, but some surviving nevertheless.
I'm not sure if cheesy, but Martha Colm? Colm is pigeon in Irish. They could die on the same date too.
And to continue Chuck's plot with dead sex partner, the hero could drive her/his dead body around in his white van to avoid suspicion of murder. Or maybe because he's slightly turned on by dead people - the reason why he lasted so long in the job.
Love the story and I love the possible changes. For me, the things that I'd like to see (if you were to ammend anything), would be the chaos at the end and the shortening of the note.
I cannot praise the pigeon metaphor enough. Wonderful stuff.
Mix that with occasional Big Voice reflection, and choruses, and imperative mood, and find the right balance.
Aaaaaghhhhhh!!!! Thank you, Chuck! I hooted so loud I probably woke up the neighbors. Thank you for all the specific feedback I can use to make it better by incorporating sex and possibly more death.
Just look at how many smart-Smart set-ups you've created? Damn.
I think it’s clear where I was trying to be too clever and it bit me for not staying consistent.
I was trying to have the looking into the camera narrator thing from third person and it flopped. This is also a good lesson for me in reading the whole piece after revisions for consistency. I really appreciate your feedback and time in reading my story!
What you say about the series of 3 completing too much energy is definitely true. You can feel it when it happens. But are there any situations where a series of three works better than a series of two or four or just a single item?
I loved the fact that you were nudging parts of the story to go into a dirty direction. Sexy times or rubbing one out. Very visceral. As I was reading that, I was thinking, "That'd be so gripping!" Pun intended.
Chuck, is that why you like to give people the last word? So that you can become that likeable underdog? I'm onto your secrets!
I noticed that the author uses "um" and "uh" in their lines of dialogue. How do you feel about that? Do you think the lines would be more concise by limiting them or simply removing them?
Small point here. Barry and Bobby sound very much alike. I learned that similar sounding names can potentially confuse readers. And when I read the name Bobby, my mind had to take a few seconds to figure out who that was. Your substitute name, "tweed jacket" is a pretty solid choice.
And the line about the plunger sucking up the turd at the gas station bathroom...made me laugh.
Good job on the story!
And you weren't kidding when you said you had a long one lol
Gee, I just now realized how ambiguous this statement could be. But it's staying.
Just wanna say, I appreciate the hell out of what you're doing on your Substack. You're really going above and beyond. To me, you have earned more thanks than we can afford to give. So, for what it's worth, thank you again. For taking the time out of your day, your precious time, to help improve our writing and to feed us insatiable little subscribers new content!
You know we can never get enough of that shit lol
Ditto
I wish I could address more of the samples submitted, but I'd rather focus on more in-depth comments on each piece.
No worries. Your thorough critiques are the best way so far. Take your time, okay?
Also, what do you mean by "foil"?
A foil is a character you've inserted in a story simply to prompt or deliver information. Sherlock Holmes can't directly address the reader so we must have Dr. Watson to ask leading questions and to ask questions on behalf of the reader. Nancy Drew had the sidekick character "George."
In theater I believe such a character is called "a feed," as in someone who ask prompts such as, "Then why did you marry the prince?" or "What are you going to do about it?"
“Dreaded character alone”. Is this a big no-no? If so I may be in trouble.
Yes, it's a big no-no. It's easy for alone characters to do a lot of thinking and wondering and worrying. Unless...your character is doing something fascinating. Like drugs or masturbating. Preferably, both at the same time. You'll be hitting all the cylinders.
Keep this on the down-low but I know it’s a no-no for Chuck; I’m trying to preemptively lower his expectations. My short story focuses on one character and contains one line of dialogue. Fortunately it kind of hits on the “fascinating” things you mentioned, but still...
No bone thrown for he who writes about the dreaded character alone.
I heard that.
No you didn’t.
Did you get the cursed jewel? It's on its way.
I have not received the cursed jewel yet, but I keep hearing knocking sounds coming from the walls at night and there’s a lingering smell of sulfur in the air. A sign that it’s on its way for sure.
Brandan, I read "Siphon," and it had me cringing in the same way Guts did...(this is a compliment.)
It REALLY is a compliment. Thank you, Maegan.
But getting a lone character to an epiphany seldom works.
It's perhaps the biggest no-no. Keep in mind that a reader is reading alone, so most readers (I'd wager) want a faux social experience of seeing characters who aren't alone.
You said that Tom used to tell you that writers write because they weren't invited to parties. Maybe some readers read for the same reason.
Exactly.
Or they're waiting for a medical scan. Or they're waiting for a flight to board. Whatever the case, they need to be distracted.
Now every time I go to the nursing home, I’m going to watch for that lost condom sliding out of someone’s pants leg onto the floor!
And what do you plan on doing with the loose condom if you find it, Wil?
Hmmm??
Fill it up with water?
Make a balloon animal?
I'm dying to know.
You are funny.
The more i use these minimalism rules the more i wonder how boring a "maximalism" story would be, using the exact opposite rules. Could be kinda fun to write though, less fun to glove off it.
Consider that you can do both. You can seem to do elaborate language -- my novel 'Pygmy' for instance -- but keep the elements very limited. The characters, actions, objects. So despite the richness of language you get the escalation that comes from keeping limited elements coming back.
That makes sense. Thanks.
Haven't had a chance to read pygmy as the french translation is a real mess, with more changed words than the original version.
I should try to get me a copy of the english version.
Hi Chris!
Thank you for sharing “Martha” with us.
An interesting thing I kept finding myself drawn to was that the story takes place on Christmas. I kept thinking about Scrooge from The Christmas Carol; for some reason, your story was giving me the same vibe, which I quite liked.
The bird thread you have going is neat and unique. I had to look up what an ornithologist was, but once I had the definition handy, the bird knowledge really clicked, and of course a guy who’s into birds is going to have on that filter no matter what he’s doing. (Side note, my grandpa Harlan is a serious bird watcher, so much so that you do not want to be a passenger in his car--he is watching the sky more closely than the road!!)
I am digging Chuck’s advice on keeping the action present. About not stealing your own thunder; how much to tell the reader and when. And also on the three’s thing. I am always thinking/writing in threes and now I will end on a two to build tension like Chuck suggested.
Thank you again for sharing. I love how all of us can learn through specific examples from each other’s work.
Thank you for reading and I'm glad you liked it! I'm going to need a moment to consider all of Chuck's feedback and figure out what will and won't work for this story. I think I've got a good start and reworking the wonky bits will pay off well. :)
Excited to see where you take it!!
Chris,
I really enjoyed the metaphors in this one as well. I can’t wait to hear you sprinkle more in about the pigeons and tie it all together at the end. Also, I really liked how you used italicized font for the Big Voice. That is a nice trick.
Chuck,
A few times you mentioned ideas for painting more physical action. I’ve heard you talk about thinking it of a camera in a movie. One trick I’ve started to do is to not only imagine the scene as if I’m watching it as a movie (where the camera goes, what moves, etc.) but I also try to then write out the scene as though I’m describing it to someone who is sitting next to me wearing a blindfold. I’ve found this helps a lot -- especially if I do it fast, as if the scene is moving that quickly. It’s helped me to not overthink and to use natural phrasing. It’s like those cooperative group exercises they’d have in school where you’re on a team and only one kid can see the object that the teacher has built and that kid has to describe it to the other kids so that they can build it right.
Thanks! As I said to Maegan above, I'm going to make changes and revisions and I'll share the updated version when I feel it's ready for prime time.
Yes! Did you do the writing exercise in school where the teacher showed a kitchen utensil and the students had to use objective, physical language to communicate that object? It's a good project.
You can't name the utensil or its use. Nor can you use pejorative language. Suddenly a slotted spoon becomes a challenge.
I didn't have to do that one but in a brief moment of clarity last night I think i figured out how to incorporate your ideas of including sex and drugs into the story without making it gratuitous. I will definitely post a link when the new version is ready for outside eyes. Thank you again for taking the time to read and provide great feedback. I really appreciate it!
Ohhh no I never had that exercise. That would be tough! This one was in wood shop class and the teacher had built this object in another room that was made up of popsicle sticks and pipe cleaners and PVC pipe and other nonsense like that. Everyone had the same parts in their team table. Total nightmare for the communicator haha.
I enjoyed "Martha" and think with some tweaking it will be an even better story. Like Chuck, I also felt that the set-up of the steep no-railing stairway was somewhat of a Checkov's gun that didn't fire. I expected Barry to fall to his death while making his escape from the house, joining Martha.
And unless you want the reader to immediately think of "The Golden Girls" I'd change the name of Shady Pines.
Thanks, Roy! There is definitely tweaking to be done and I need to figure out which of Chekov's guns will go off (driving in snow, stairs, introduce a sex partner that will die) and see what happens.
Agreed on the steep stairs too. When I read through the first time I desperately wanted something bad to happen during the back half of the story. One thought: maybe Barry got the job because his predecessor died falling down the stairs, so they're a constant source of tension/fear for him.
I am in the process of revisions/rewrites and adding sex and more death. Stay tuned!
You always drop gems in your critiques. Here is just one of my favorites.
"A lavish setting does not make a story good. Neither does clever talk. Only good verbs and escalating action make a story work."
One of my faves too!
Everything in service of tension. Ratchet up the tension.
This is why so much of my fiction takes place in bathrooms and airplane cabins. Little or no description is needed, people fill in the blanks. But if you set events in a palace you can get trapped by description.
Note how in "The Haunting of Hill House" Shirley Jackson keeps most of her description for the "house tour" chapter. Even then the characters are moving through the rooms, dancing, jumping from unsafe stairs, smelling stuff, she never lapses into passive "is" description. Always characters moving, talking, smelling.
Been meaning to ask you about setting.
Because certain description is tricky for me. For first-person stories, some people want details to visualize the main character. But...how would a first-person character describe herself without sounding weird? Because looking in a mirror and listing off details is odd. Nobody would do that in real life.
The flip side to that is to not describe the physical details of a character. This makes it easier for the reader to supplant themselves in the protagonist's place.
And setting. Yes. Having a character go through a setting, using those action verbs, make description pop. But again, I think I just write it odd. For example, "I tiptoed across the hardwood floor." Just feels weird adding details like that because I know when I'm telling a story, I never say it like that.
Try “The floor boards squeaked beneath my feet.” Or “That damn floor board, squeaking again.” Then you submerge the “I” too. But only include the detail if it matters. If the narrator needs to be quiet or the floor will squeak later and cause conflict. Or if it’s something the character would notice because of their professional or obsessions, etc.
I rarely include description of my characters, and sometimes readers complain to me about this, but usually I won’t include unless I think it adds to the story. I like to imagine myself as the main character while I read, so I just insert myself. Lol.
The "tiptoe" line was just a vague example. But thanks for responding! <3
Martha, Martha... That was also the name of the SMG shooter in Scarface when they're about to chop Tony with the saw. She stuck in my mind as the most scarry character of the whole movie.
I don't want to be repeating Chuck's excellent advice and observations.
So here are mine.
I liked you used death as an initiator for a new life. It also works with the snow, as winter is like a death (metaphorically). Maybe it would better work with early spring and sudden blizzard to suggest new times? Or don't tell and show daffodils now destroyed by snow, but some surviving nevertheless.
I'm not sure if cheesy, but Martha Colm? Colm is pigeon in Irish. They could die on the same date too.
And to continue Chuck's plot with dead sex partner, the hero could drive her/his dead body around in his white van to avoid suspicion of murder. Or maybe because he's slightly turned on by dead people - the reason why he lasted so long in the job.
Thanks for sharing!
Love the story and I love the possible changes. For me, the things that I'd like to see (if you were to ammend anything), would be the chaos at the end and the shortening of the note.
Another story I really enjoyed.