It might be in the collection, “Tales of Desire” by Tennessee Williams. Pretty sure Deep Archer has the story right. Might be the story “Hard Candy?” (And 1959 on this) the books same title, a collection of short stories that was published January 17, 1967 (or 1954 by New Directions– hard to get the date right) as a book. I read the TW revised RIO— “Hard Candy” is the newer one with characters going back to the same theater. But, RIO is the last story in the book—In the same collection— pretty sure DeepArcher has it though.
Still researching…
Also, forgive my manners— CONGRATULATIONS CHRIS MORIN!!
Chris— are you planning on a new draft? My brain has been burning from excitement about where I want to take the Bo-Bo story. His editing made a lot of sense on mine. Was hard to see some of the good detail I loved get the yank— but it makes sense. Did you die a little from the excitement that Chuck chose your story??
For sure I did, Kerri! I had a crazy week so didn’t see it until really late. I couldn’t even read the entire thing that night haha. But great feedback all around and yes I’m definitely using his advice and working on an updated draft. I’ll post it soon. You applying your edits to your story
Thanks for sharing Chris. Chuck picked out so many things that I did not notice when I read it the first time. I think you can build on this to make something so much more than when where you started.
Thanks for your feedback, Craig, you pointed out that dwindling tension so well. I was already working on extending those legal conflicts, and Chuck adds another level. This experience, while intimidating, is so valuable, thanks again, man!
My favorite line: “She perked up, nostrils flaring, like a doe about to bolt.” Truly amazing physical description there. That is one of the best sentences I’ve read in a while.
This story reminded me a lot of The Missing 411 by David Paulides. He’s a former police investigator who has put together a huge collection of strange *real* disappearances and deaths in national parks.
The cases are WEIRD. Hundreds of them. And we’re not talking about animals killing people or some guy hiking on his own and disappearing. In a lot of cases the victims are with groups of people. One second they are there and the next second they are gone.
They’ve found people naked with their clothes neatly folded next to their shoes and socks by a river, only to have their body be found miles away with no cuts or dirt on the feet. There’s a lot of coverage of this on YouTube for anyone that wants to learn more about it. I think the film based on the book is still free on Amazon as well. There are tons of theories -- portals to other dimensions, UFOs, Bigfoot, natural phenomenon yet to be explained, etc.
Really enjoyed this story and learning from Chuck’s feedback!
Thanks, Elliot, I’m stoked you enjoyed it! Thanks for that book recommendation! My wife and I moved out to the Rockies four years ago that idea, that someone could just disappear out here in this vast wilderness, struck me right when we started hiking out here and hasn’t left me.
That’s crazy there’s a book series on all of these disappearances. Im glad my story sparked that for you because that was definitely what I was going for.
Chuck, incredibly valuable analysis. I’m blown away by the concreteness in each comment, no joke. I highlight and screenshot the good ones. This combo of the exact text and the key principle behind your critique of it is so helpful. Thanks.
Exactly my takeaway, J.G.! Nothing general like "hmm, i think this section needs some work." Just specific feedback that immediately strengthens the scene or section. Its so damn helpful!
Oh hey, the author himself! You have a great little story there, love the premise and where you take it. Some beautiful ideas and passages. Not fair that you got such great feedback lol! Good luck with it.
Thanks JG really glad you liked it. Yeah this whole weekend I keep rereading these tips from Chuck. I had a general idea of how to approach this but obviously I veered several times so to have this course correction is amazing. Definitely using all Chuck’s advice.
It would be cool to put a thread together where we could help each other find stories like this. I’ve been looking for a couple for most of my life, whose details are still very poignant to me, probably from old sci-fi or mystery magazines, or Alfred Hitchcock compilations. I’m sure there’s a proper phrasing that would help a search engine find them, but I’m not sure what it is.
I love this series, Gloves Off. I never get into the spirit of minimalism as much as when I'm following the thread of the editing Comments. And how to be not writerly? Write badly, I guess. Like bad painting when you can paint. Right?
It's not a matter of writing badly. More it's writing the way people talk when they're stressed by the emotion. Eloquence negates the reality and tension; i.e. if the storyteller can be so calm and articulate then why worry? Tom Spanbauer and Gordon Lish called intentional missphrasing "burnt tongue." By consistently making mistakes -- as real people do as they speak -- you're gaining authority. The trick is to be consistent so readers recognize a pattern in your so-called "mistakes."
I really liked “politely accusing,” when I read the story. It made me think of how so many things are polite accusations and ponder if I politely accuse anyone of anything.
I doubt but want the answer to be a collusion of reading Tonio Kroger (1903) by Thomas Mann which lead to Joy Rio after research and too much drinking with the realization the story in memory never fully existed just the collusion.
Wow, Chuck, thanks for the stellar feedback! Yeah I knew I was summarizing throughout and that the tension sort of fizzled by the end but I couldn't quite put my finger on it. I saw that it was getting pretty long for a short story so I skimmed over areas where I definitely need to unpack stuff, thanks for pointing that out. Then the tips at the end, from the mushroom ceremony to the final scene, all that makes so much sense. Keep that uncertainty for the reader! A couple lines of feedback and the vision clears.
The big takeaway is that you give specific, technical feedback on HOW to improve certain aspects of the story. I wanted that uncertainty feel throughout but honestly I didn't know HOW to fully accomplish that. Just a few tweaks here and there and I can already see the adjustments are going to make the story so much tighter and stronger. Chuck your feedback is so critical to not just this specific story - as well as all the other Gloves Off stories you've analyzed - but just approaching writing in general. I found Consider This! about a year before this Substack and it was a complete game changer. You break down the story in such a technical way, it's like an architect fixing a DIY home project and then encouraging me to go bigger on the next build. Its so motivating, I can't thank you enough.
Honestly, after all of these lessons from the book and your essays and these Gloves Off rounds, this is the best story I've ever written, and it still has a ton of work to do. But, now I feel like I've arrived at the starting line, after all of these years. It's very empowering and motivating. Thanks again!
Hi Chris! Thank you for letting us read your story.
I know the goal is not to sound too writerly, but you have some really nice language throughout. For example, I like the use of bees/wasps imagery at the beginning. This line, "punctuated by some late-season bees lingering beside the path, their collective hum seeming to call and echo down the stretches of barren trail soothing and warning all at once: forget her." And I like how you bring those images of bees back again in the middle and end of the story. I especially like the "forget her" part. Right away, it lets me know this story is going to be about whoever the "her" the narrator should forget about. And I'm curious to find out why.
You create good tension with the search teams, the investigators, starting to pose the question to the reader: did the narrator kill her? I like how you raise the stakes by brining the sister and brother-in-law into it. Family members of the missing girl amps up that tension.
I wonder what might happen if you moved the "Slot Canyons" paragraphs up closer to the beginning of the story. Because I like how the narrator explains 1) what they are, 2) how you have to adjust your body to maneuver through them, and 3) that #2 creates dread/tension, because right away I just picture someone getting stuck. Or getting through but not being able to get back out again. It is an opportunity for something to go wrong :)
I was surprised to see what happened to the missing girl at the end. That she became a spirit or ghost. There's a lot of peace at the end, but I might also enjoy the sprinkling back in of that original question I had: Did the narrator kill this girl? And if so, Can Love be strong enough to let both a murder and peace coexist? Just some thoughts. Great job, and look forward to seeing where you take this.
You got it!!!
Yes -in his collection- Tales of Desire”
Is it Truman Capote’s “Other Voices, Other Rooms?” A novel published in 1948?
It might be in the collection, “Tales of Desire” by Tennessee Williams. Pretty sure Deep Archer has the story right. Might be the story “Hard Candy?” (And 1959 on this) the books same title, a collection of short stories that was published January 17, 1967 (or 1954 by New Directions– hard to get the date right) as a book. I read the TW revised RIO— “Hard Candy” is the newer one with characters going back to the same theater. But, RIO is the last story in the book—In the same collection— pretty sure DeepArcher has it though.
Still researching…
Also, forgive my manners— CONGRATULATIONS CHRIS MORIN!!
https://filthydreams.org/2013/08/16/do-you-love-me-sleaze-as-redemption-in-tennessee-williamss-joy-rio/?amp=1
https://journals.lib.unb.ca/index.php/IFR/article/download/14288/15365/19024
Thanks, Kerri! Yeah, I get it, I was doing the same this morning, searching and searching for that missing story!
Chris— are you planning on a new draft? My brain has been burning from excitement about where I want to take the Bo-Bo story. His editing made a lot of sense on mine. Was hard to see some of the good detail I loved get the yank— but it makes sense. Did you die a little from the excitement that Chuck chose your story??
For sure I did, Kerri! I had a crazy week so didn’t see it until really late. I couldn’t even read the entire thing that night haha. But great feedback all around and yes I’m definitely using his advice and working on an updated draft. I’ll post it soon. You applying your edits to your story
Thank you for responding. You know I am!! I’m gonna start this week. Really looking forward to it. Again— serious congratulations.
Thanks for sharing Chris. Chuck picked out so many things that I did not notice when I read it the first time. I think you can build on this to make something so much more than when where you started.
Thanks for your feedback, Craig, you pointed out that dwindling tension so well. I was already working on extending those legal conflicts, and Chuck adds another level. This experience, while intimidating, is so valuable, thanks again, man!
Extremely valuable, for all of us
Mysteries of the Joy Rio?
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/52771741-the-mysteries-of-the-joy-rio
Is this the one?
Not sure if you can sign up for a free account to view it here...page 103... https://archive.org/details/collectedstories00willrich/page/n1/mode/2up
My favorite line: “She perked up, nostrils flaring, like a doe about to bolt.” Truly amazing physical description there. That is one of the best sentences I’ve read in a while.
This story reminded me a lot of The Missing 411 by David Paulides. He’s a former police investigator who has put together a huge collection of strange *real* disappearances and deaths in national parks.
The cases are WEIRD. Hundreds of them. And we’re not talking about animals killing people or some guy hiking on his own and disappearing. In a lot of cases the victims are with groups of people. One second they are there and the next second they are gone.
They’ve found people naked with their clothes neatly folded next to their shoes and socks by a river, only to have their body be found miles away with no cuts or dirt on the feet. There’s a lot of coverage of this on YouTube for anyone that wants to learn more about it. I think the film based on the book is still free on Amazon as well. There are tons of theories -- portals to other dimensions, UFOs, Bigfoot, natural phenomenon yet to be explained, etc.
Really enjoyed this story and learning from Chuck’s feedback!
I'll have to check those cases out!! Sounds fascinating.
Thanks, Elliot, I’m stoked you enjoyed it! Thanks for that book recommendation! My wife and I moved out to the Rockies four years ago that idea, that someone could just disappear out here in this vast wilderness, struck me right when we started hiking out here and hasn’t left me.
That’s crazy there’s a book series on all of these disappearances. Im glad my story sparked that for you because that was definitely what I was going for.
Chuck, incredibly valuable analysis. I’m blown away by the concreteness in each comment, no joke. I highlight and screenshot the good ones. This combo of the exact text and the key principle behind your critique of it is so helpful. Thanks.
Thanks! This was a lovely story to start with. My thanks to the author.
Well this made my entire week! I'm glad you enjoyed it, Chuck, thanks for all the feedback!
Exactly my takeaway, J.G.! Nothing general like "hmm, i think this section needs some work." Just specific feedback that immediately strengthens the scene or section. Its so damn helpful!
Oh hey, the author himself! You have a great little story there, love the premise and where you take it. Some beautiful ideas and passages. Not fair that you got such great feedback lol! Good luck with it.
Thanks JG really glad you liked it. Yeah this whole weekend I keep rereading these tips from Chuck. I had a general idea of how to approach this but obviously I veered several times so to have this course correction is amazing. Definitely using all Chuck’s advice.
There is another TW story set in the Joy Rio titled “Hard Candy,” but I suspect Mysteries of the Joy Rio is what you’re looking for.
It would be cool to put a thread together where we could help each other find stories like this. I’ve been looking for a couple for most of my life, whose details are still very poignant to me, probably from old sci-fi or mystery magazines, or Alfred Hitchcock compilations. I’m sure there’s a proper phrasing that would help a search engine find them, but I’m not sure what it is.
I love this series, Gloves Off. I never get into the spirit of minimalism as much as when I'm following the thread of the editing Comments. And how to be not writerly? Write badly, I guess. Like bad painting when you can paint. Right?
It's not a matter of writing badly. More it's writing the way people talk when they're stressed by the emotion. Eloquence negates the reality and tension; i.e. if the storyteller can be so calm and articulate then why worry? Tom Spanbauer and Gordon Lish called intentional missphrasing "burnt tongue." By consistently making mistakes -- as real people do as they speak -- you're gaining authority. The trick is to be consistent so readers recognize a pattern in your so-called "mistakes."
I really liked “politely accusing,” when I read the story. It made me think of how so many things are polite accusations and ponder if I politely accuse anyone of anything.
SON OF CELLULOID BY CLIVE BARKER? the story you're looking for?
I doubt but want the answer to be a collusion of reading Tonio Kroger (1903) by Thomas Mann which lead to Joy Rio after research and too much drinking with the realization the story in memory never fully existed just the collusion.
Wow, Chuck, thanks for the stellar feedback! Yeah I knew I was summarizing throughout and that the tension sort of fizzled by the end but I couldn't quite put my finger on it. I saw that it was getting pretty long for a short story so I skimmed over areas where I definitely need to unpack stuff, thanks for pointing that out. Then the tips at the end, from the mushroom ceremony to the final scene, all that makes so much sense. Keep that uncertainty for the reader! A couple lines of feedback and the vision clears.
The big takeaway is that you give specific, technical feedback on HOW to improve certain aspects of the story. I wanted that uncertainty feel throughout but honestly I didn't know HOW to fully accomplish that. Just a few tweaks here and there and I can already see the adjustments are going to make the story so much tighter and stronger. Chuck your feedback is so critical to not just this specific story - as well as all the other Gloves Off stories you've analyzed - but just approaching writing in general. I found Consider This! about a year before this Substack and it was a complete game changer. You break down the story in such a technical way, it's like an architect fixing a DIY home project and then encouraging me to go bigger on the next build. Its so motivating, I can't thank you enough.
Honestly, after all of these lessons from the book and your essays and these Gloves Off rounds, this is the best story I've ever written, and it still has a ton of work to do. But, now I feel like I've arrived at the starting line, after all of these years. It's very empowering and motivating. Thanks again!
Hi Chris! Thank you for letting us read your story.
I know the goal is not to sound too writerly, but you have some really nice language throughout. For example, I like the use of bees/wasps imagery at the beginning. This line, "punctuated by some late-season bees lingering beside the path, their collective hum seeming to call and echo down the stretches of barren trail soothing and warning all at once: forget her." And I like how you bring those images of bees back again in the middle and end of the story. I especially like the "forget her" part. Right away, it lets me know this story is going to be about whoever the "her" the narrator should forget about. And I'm curious to find out why.
You create good tension with the search teams, the investigators, starting to pose the question to the reader: did the narrator kill her? I like how you raise the stakes by brining the sister and brother-in-law into it. Family members of the missing girl amps up that tension.
I wonder what might happen if you moved the "Slot Canyons" paragraphs up closer to the beginning of the story. Because I like how the narrator explains 1) what they are, 2) how you have to adjust your body to maneuver through them, and 3) that #2 creates dread/tension, because right away I just picture someone getting stuck. Or getting through but not being able to get back out again. It is an opportunity for something to go wrong :)
I was surprised to see what happened to the missing girl at the end. That she became a spirit or ghost. There's a lot of peace at the end, but I might also enjoy the sprinkling back in of that original question I had: Did the narrator kill this girl? And if so, Can Love be strong enough to let both a murder and peace coexist? Just some thoughts. Great job, and look forward to seeing where you take this.