Amazing advice as always. I especially love the idea of having her communicate through indecipherable drawings when they meet. For such a small thing, it adds so much personality to her character right away.
This is a fantastic, relatable story, Wil. I love Mark’s “on the body” reactions to Alyssa, like his self snapping back behind his eyes when he first sees her. Incredible.
“It’s the prettiest sound I have ever not been able to hear” is so sweet. I really felt what Mark is feeling throughout the whole story. And you have a great sense for the little details. I love how near the end of the story Alyssa throws the dishrag and says “Fuck my life”, then within minutes she’s laughing at a text exchange with someone else. So real and so good.
Very well done. I hope you’ll share the story with us again if you revise with Chuck’s suggestions.
Thanks Karin! Sure! my pleasure to revise and share the update. And isn’t Chuck the best? He gives specific (and absolutely obvious (after he points them out)) suggestions on how to improve a story. The Gloves Off (for this story and all the others) are the most helpful of Chuck’s always excellent instruction.
Take a look at my story 'Romance' and how the bull-headed narrator blinds himself to his girlfriend's quirks. By doing so you allow the reader to be the smart person, and that makes the reader want to protect the narrator.
Funny, once in workshop, Janice spoke up, saying, "You make storytelling sound like it's just manipulation." Chelsea Cain and I just looked at her. Our faces were just 'Yeah, and...?'
Chuck, I am at this very moment sitting at my desk working on a story and was completely stuck on a scene. I got the email notification for this comment, read what you wrote, and it was EXACTLY the advice I needed. I don't know if you're psychic or what...but thank you!! :)
But at the risk of admitting I wrote a theme I didn’t intend, the theme I was going for here wasn’t “boy misses warning signs,” but “destiny is bullshit.” So, I want Alyssa/future wife to be perfect for Mark in the first two acts, but it doesn’t last and his belief in the stars and fate blessing him is now a belief that he’s cursed and couldn’t change things if he tried.
I want readers to feel smarter than Mark, but not because they spot Alyssa’s flaws that he missed, but because they spot Mark’s flaw in that he assumes his sad marriage is the stars’ fault. I want the readers to think, Mark! It’s not too late! Quit drinking and thinking about the way things were, go into the bedroom before it’s too late!!!
If I failed to communicate this theme (believing in fate and/or soulmates eventually hurts you), I’d greatly appreciate if anyone had tips on how I could make Mark’s bondage to a bad idea more explicit.
I think probably I could do that by expanding the earlier sections to include Mark doing or not doing something he felt was fated that the reader sees as obviously foolish, so in the end it’s implied he should be acting/thinking other than he does
Now I see what you were doing with: "Her horoscope read, 'Say yes to a stranger’s request and discover adventure.' To be fair, I’m definitely not a stranger to Alyssa, but you know, the spirit of the text always shines brighter than its literal meaning."
I would say that a couple more examples like this would go a long way -- where the signs Mark is looking for clearly aren't there, but he twists things in his brain to see them anyway.
And I always thought the point of storytelling was based on manipulation. You're toying with people, withholding things, raising tension, maintaining tension, then breaking it. You're making up a character and trying to convince people they could be real. And then you make a reader care enough about them to worry when the character is in some kind of danger.
Exactly! If you can, never name the object. If the reader discovers the truth he/she gets a massive rush. Once you name the object, you flatten the tension.
Mar 5, 2023·edited Mar 5, 2023Liked by Chuck Palahniuk
Yeah, Wil! Woo!
What I love most about this story is Act III. Chuck is right, this is where all the tension is. But we need Act I and II to get there, to see the contrast from beginning to end. And you do a great job of changing the tone from flowery/dreamy bliss of new love to this bare reality of what a marriage can unintentionally turn into, even for the most starry-eyed soulmates. The scraping of kids' leftovers into the trash. The Lonely Hearts Club, even for the married guys. The hand cutting through the room "nowhere near my own." Ugh, it just wrenches my heart. But most wrenching of all--that coin/token, collecting dust behind the washer. Magic...extinguished.
I like how you put this in the middle; different ways of looking at a coin that's same on both sides:
"'Love is a choice," he says. “Love takes effort. Hard work.”
Love is a mystery. The solution is find your soul-mate."
Suggestions:
-Please have Mark do a magic trick with the token up at the beginning. I know he flips it and there are stars on both sides, but have him do one of those make it appear from behind your ear tricks like Chuck suggests.
-I DO NOT want Mark to throw that coin/token he finds under the washer in the trash! Which means he MUST throw it away... [crying] But make sure not until after he does that little magic trick at the end you already have in there.
-I like the drawing on the napkin idea Chuck suggests.
-Chuck gives some good ideas for how to plant tension throughout. I especially like at the proposal scene his idea of having Clarissa stomp out a cigarette when she says, “I’ve never known two people so destined for each other.” And also maybe add something that only the reader sees that hints at the fact that Clarissa and Tommy's relationship isn't going to work out.
What if you show the kid at the beginning a magic trick with the coin?
Thanks for sharing! In addition to the coin, I really liked how you used the napkin-writing mechanism. For whatever reason, that’s where I got hooked and I think Chuck’s right that you could riff on it even more to create tension and suggest character.
Hi Wil. Thanks for submitting. Great use of the tokens throughout. Just a few thoughts below:
When the narrator says his friend brought his kid - can you describe how old? Like he has snot wiped up his nose or fiddling with his Nintendo. Something that ages him without an age.
'I could win a hundred yard sprint. I could spar politics with my uncle and bully him speechless.' Per Chuck's note about hot fries, narrator could pick one up here and then drop it suddenly, or spit it out here.
The writing on napkins I would shorten as napkins are small and too many penstrokes tend to rip them. So, 'More fries?' rather than, 'Should I order more fries?'
When he first hears her voice, maybe comment on it sounding nothing like what he thought it would. Or exactly like it should, just because of the set up of the napkin notes.
Hey! Thanks! I really liked it. Gave me a new structure to try. The letters was an interesting device to show time passing through his changed perspectives, especially as he sobers up and suffers from the medications. What a great voice. This was my favorite line/detail: “I’ve heard people talking right outside my window who aren’t there when I go look.”
Haha! Thanks for the kick in the pants Wil. I'm steadily rolling along. It's coming. I just want to give Chuck a great attempt to get the most out of his feedback, you know. But it's making me second-guess and go back and tinker. I gotta push this baby out or else it'll die.
Hooray for Wil!
Thank you, thank you, thank you!
Wooo!! This is amazing!!
Amazing advice as always. I especially love the idea of having her communicate through indecipherable drawings when they meet. For such a small thing, it adds so much personality to her character right away.
This is a fantastic, relatable story, Wil. I love Mark’s “on the body” reactions to Alyssa, like his self snapping back behind his eyes when he first sees her. Incredible.
“It’s the prettiest sound I have ever not been able to hear” is so sweet. I really felt what Mark is feeling throughout the whole story. And you have a great sense for the little details. I love how near the end of the story Alyssa throws the dishrag and says “Fuck my life”, then within minutes she’s laughing at a text exchange with someone else. So real and so good.
Very well done. I hope you’ll share the story with us again if you revise with Chuck’s suggestions.
Thanks Karin! Sure! my pleasure to revise and share the update. And isn’t Chuck the best? He gives specific (and absolutely obvious (after he points them out)) suggestions on how to improve a story. The Gloves Off (for this story and all the others) are the most helpful of Chuck’s always excellent instruction.
I could not agree more. I learn so much from every single one.
Take a look at my story 'Romance' and how the bull-headed narrator blinds himself to his girlfriend's quirks. By doing so you allow the reader to be the smart person, and that makes the reader want to protect the narrator.
Funny, once in workshop, Janice spoke up, saying, "You make storytelling sound like it's just manipulation." Chelsea Cain and I just looked at her. Our faces were just 'Yeah, and...?'
Chuck, I am at this very moment sitting at my desk working on a story and was completely stuck on a scene. I got the email notification for this comment, read what you wrote, and it was EXACTLY the advice I needed. I don't know if you're psychic or what...but thank you!! :)
Get up. Walk around. Fold laundry. Go back to writing with your head filled.
Romance is great! And relatable, ha!
But at the risk of admitting I wrote a theme I didn’t intend, the theme I was going for here wasn’t “boy misses warning signs,” but “destiny is bullshit.” So, I want Alyssa/future wife to be perfect for Mark in the first two acts, but it doesn’t last and his belief in the stars and fate blessing him is now a belief that he’s cursed and couldn’t change things if he tried.
I want readers to feel smarter than Mark, but not because they spot Alyssa’s flaws that he missed, but because they spot Mark’s flaw in that he assumes his sad marriage is the stars’ fault. I want the readers to think, Mark! It’s not too late! Quit drinking and thinking about the way things were, go into the bedroom before it’s too late!!!
If I failed to communicate this theme (believing in fate and/or soulmates eventually hurts you), I’d greatly appreciate if anyone had tips on how I could make Mark’s bondage to a bad idea more explicit.
I think probably I could do that by expanding the earlier sections to include Mark doing or not doing something he felt was fated that the reader sees as obviously foolish, so in the end it’s implied he should be acting/thinking other than he does
Great. That's all the more reason to keep all the omens -- the storm, the tokens, the bride-to-be -- present throughout.
Now I see what you were doing with: "Her horoscope read, 'Say yes to a stranger’s request and discover adventure.' To be fair, I’m definitely not a stranger to Alyssa, but you know, the spirit of the text always shines brighter than its literal meaning."
I would say that a couple more examples like this would go a long way -- where the signs Mark is looking for clearly aren't there, but he twists things in his brain to see them anyway.
I don't think I can ever forget the line, "Puppet show! Magic trick!" Those poor, poor, Romeos.
And I always thought the point of storytelling was based on manipulation. You're toying with people, withholding things, raising tension, maintaining tension, then breaking it. You're making up a character and trying to convince people they could be real. And then you make a reader care enough about them to worry when the character is in some kind of danger.
Exactly. It's all manipulation. That's why using silly language (Puppet show! Magic trick!) during a shocking event heightens the drama.
And you also let the reader figure out what she pulled out. The hotdog bun on a string, smeared with the ketchup.
Exactly! If you can, never name the object. If the reader discovers the truth he/she gets a massive rush. Once you name the object, you flatten the tension.
Thanks for sharing Wil, that was great.
This was such an excellent insight into linking parts of a story together.
Yeah, Wil! Woo!
What I love most about this story is Act III. Chuck is right, this is where all the tension is. But we need Act I and II to get there, to see the contrast from beginning to end. And you do a great job of changing the tone from flowery/dreamy bliss of new love to this bare reality of what a marriage can unintentionally turn into, even for the most starry-eyed soulmates. The scraping of kids' leftovers into the trash. The Lonely Hearts Club, even for the married guys. The hand cutting through the room "nowhere near my own." Ugh, it just wrenches my heart. But most wrenching of all--that coin/token, collecting dust behind the washer. Magic...extinguished.
I like how you put this in the middle; different ways of looking at a coin that's same on both sides:
"'Love is a choice," he says. “Love takes effort. Hard work.”
Love is a mystery. The solution is find your soul-mate."
Suggestions:
-Please have Mark do a magic trick with the token up at the beginning. I know he flips it and there are stars on both sides, but have him do one of those make it appear from behind your ear tricks like Chuck suggests.
-I DO NOT want Mark to throw that coin/token he finds under the washer in the trash! Which means he MUST throw it away... [crying] But make sure not until after he does that little magic trick at the end you already have in there.
-I like the drawing on the napkin idea Chuck suggests.
-Chuck gives some good ideas for how to plant tension throughout. I especially like at the proposal scene his idea of having Clarissa stomp out a cigarette when she says, “I’ve never known two people so destined for each other.” And also maybe add something that only the reader sees that hints at the fact that Clarissa and Tommy's relationship isn't going to work out.
Great job, Wil. Can't wait to read the revision!
On second thought, instead of ending on “I don’t answer” you might end on throwing the coin in the trash.
What if you show the kid at the beginning a magic trick with the coin?
Thanks for sharing! In addition to the coin, I really liked how you used the napkin-writing mechanism. For whatever reason, that’s where I got hooked and I think Chuck’s right that you could riff on it even more to create tension and suggest character.
Nice idea about doing the magic trick for the kid!
Oh yeah. That’s a good idea! Thanks!
That's a smart idea. Launch the magic with the kid, then hide it until the park scene.
Hi Wil. Thanks for submitting. Great use of the tokens throughout. Just a few thoughts below:
When the narrator says his friend brought his kid - can you describe how old? Like he has snot wiped up his nose or fiddling with his Nintendo. Something that ages him without an age.
'I could win a hundred yard sprint. I could spar politics with my uncle and bully him speechless.' Per Chuck's note about hot fries, narrator could pick one up here and then drop it suddenly, or spit it out here.
The writing on napkins I would shorten as napkins are small and too many penstrokes tend to rip them. So, 'More fries?' rather than, 'Should I order more fries?'
When he first hears her voice, maybe comment on it sounding nothing like what he thought it would. Or exactly like it should, just because of the set up of the napkin notes.
That's it. Great story!
Now, it think Wil has them writing on paper place mats, or a single place mat. Much larger and durable.
Just re-read. I stand corrected.
Awwwh!! Yay, Wil!!!!!! I bet you’re totally fueled and really enjoying the moment!!! Totally happy for you!!
I am shining bright, floating in the stars.
Cool! I’ll check it out! Thanks!
Hey! Thanks! I really liked it. Gave me a new structure to try. The letters was an interesting device to show time passing through his changed perspectives, especially as he sobers up and suffers from the medications. What a great voice. This was my favorite line/detail: “I’ve heard people talking right outside my window who aren’t there when I go look.”
I found it here: https://www.theharvardadvocate.com/content/the-starlight-on-idaho
Why does that great opening hook seem such elusive?
Congrats on Wil for tossing his story into Chuck's lion den.
Joseph! Where’s your story!?!? Quit procrastinating! (But also, thanks! :)
Haha! Thanks for the kick in the pants Wil. I'm steadily rolling along. It's coming. I just want to give Chuck a great attempt to get the most out of his feedback, you know. But it's making me second-guess and go back and tinker. I gotta push this baby out or else it'll die.