Hello, for the time being I'm asking people to post on the March 1st "A Call for Stories." That way I can find everyone in a single place and choose as randomly as possible.
“If you’re going in the neck or the groin, you’re getting too old for heroin”
This is such a great story, Katy! The way you effortlessly flow through the narrator’s body of knowledge is really well done. The buzzer and the repetition and the initials all come together and give the story a good rhythm, which makes it easier to appreciate all the subtle things you do.
I think stepping on the naloxone in the way Chuck suggested will really underscore that it isn’t used at the end. Leave the reader truly gut punched! Thanks for sharing it.
I have really enjoyed these, thank you for doing them. I find them annoying, just a little bit, because you advance certain styles and techniques consistently and religiously. But it is immensely valuable because it is a particular perspective that forces the author (and us as readers) to *choose*. I don’t always agree with the recommendations or corrections that you make, but they always force me to think very hard about what I value and why. Which is really all you can ask from a critique.
Hi Jack. Thanks for reading. For me, I tend to agree with Chuck's suggestions because even now I still remember how rocked I was reading Fight Club when I was 16 and thinking, 'That's what I want to feel every time I'm reading.' Obviously each to their own, but as you say it to forces us to think and for me, makes me double check on what story I'm trying to tell so it doesn't get lost.
I love Chucks writing, too - it’s why we’re all here, right? I guess what I was trying to get at is that there is an invisible line between “writing well” and “writing like Chuck”. I went back and read about a dozen of these gloves off posts. Some of the advice he gave was incredibly good, but his best advice was helpful for the people who were trying (with mixed success) to write the kind of story that he writes.
Some of his tips are universally good (explore each of the senses, keep track of your objects, how would your character describe this, etc...). Others are more stylistic choices - submerge the I, in particular. Or avoiding tennis match dialogue and witty asides that’s distract from the tension.
As an example of what I’m finding simultaneously useful and frustrating - on the Jay Rollins gloves off from a week ago, he kept striking out the banter and quips because they distracted from the tension of the scene. It’s great advice, but... what about scenes where the banter and quips are the point? What about stories that arent dirty, grimy, gripping action?
After reading a bunch of these gloves off, I found a very distinct convergence in tone and style. I’d like to see him do more of these and explore different kinds of writing that have different challenges.
Again, it's just a suggestion. In high school my basketball coach asked me to wear ankle weights for a summer. Horrible eight-pound bags of sand that strapped around my ankles in the desert heat. It was awful, but it wasn't forever. It was awful, but that next season I was nailing rebounds and scoring points.
We learn by imitation. In Tom's workshop everyone went thru a funny stage of sounding like a bad Tom. I've written as a bad Stephen King, a bad Dorothy Parker, a very bad Hemingway, a bad Vonnegut. Eventually writers mix and match to create their own style and voice.
Thank you for your feedback, but I can't teach what I don't know. I'm sorry to disappoint you.
I explained more of what I meant in my response to Katy, so I’ll just reiterate here that I’d be super interested in seeing you examine and critique stories from a broader range of genres. I’m pretty new here and I’ve only read two or three dozen posts, so you may have covered a bunch of different types of writing in the past and I just missed it.
I think the primary thing I’m struggling with is that I find your advice incredibly helpful for writing action scenes. I instantly improved a couple things just by seeing you point them out in someone else’s writing - which is awesome!
On the other hand, Im not writing thrillers or page turners at the moment. A lot of your critiques involve cutting away the extraneous stuff to really immerse the reader in the action, and your tips are very effective for that. But what about the opposite kind of writing, where the story is just a vehicle for the meandering insights?
I’m sure that most of this is probably user error, in the sense that I haven’t properly internalized your heuristics so that I know when and where to apply them. But I’d love to see you analyze some stuff that is way different from the Fight Club vibe.
There's the old writing rule: Get into the scene late, and get out early. Drugs and music videos have given me such a short attention span. If you've subscribed on a monthly basis you're only out a few bucks.
Lol hey man, you’re not getting rid of me that easy!
I’ve really like the series, sorry if I came across too negative. And although I ’m not working on stuff in your wheelhouse at the moment, I’m sure I’ll take a spin at writing Bad Chuck when I think of a story that fits. Thanks again for doing these public critiques, and double thanks for being so responsive.
Wow, what an incredible story. Katy, I thought your name looked familiar, so I looked further in your Substack and saw that you also wrote Cradleland -- another one of my favorite Gloves Off stories. Consider me a fan. You're an extremely talented and engaging writer. I can't wait to see what you do next.
Before I read this Gloves Off, here's a story. A few days ago, I found this video of a mom driving in her car. She had been crying because her son was missing for a few days. So she calls her son's phone again and someone picks up. A lady said, "I'm from the medical examiner's office." The mom responds with, "Medical examiner? Is my son dead?"
Lady on the phone says, "Are you alone?"
The mom says, "My husband is here." And she shouts, "Is my son dead?"
The medical examiner says, "Can you pull over if you're driving?"
So they pull over and she asks if her son is dead. And she says yes. And the mom just breaks down in screams.
The reason why I'm sharing is because I caught myself thinking, that is a great example of how to maintain tension with evasive questions.
I don't know why my mind went there, totally bypassing this woman's pain. You've cemented the importance of tension in my mind so well, I'm in awe when I see examples in the wild.
Creating tension is the biggest challenge for writers. Most of us avoid tension in life, and stress. So creating it is counter to our natural impulses. We have to learn to be troublemakers.
It's an interesting dynamic. You want to be understanding and empathetic to your own characters but at the same time, you want to put them through hell. It's pretty stressful lol
The story notes/comments are such a help and eye opener to the work of writing. Thanks Chuck! And thanks to all those who put their work up to the test
My favourite prison slang is 'birdkiller' for Spice. It's because when you use it it distorts time to the point when you're unaware of it passing and your time in prison is 'bird'.
I work in a treatment center and haven't heard any slang for naloxone yet, though I recently met someone who used it and saved the life of the guy living in the tent next to him. I know they're giving it out free to any veteran who will take it here in Portland, Oregon, and I'm guessing anyone in the street life if they want it. I thought it was interesting that your needle slang is pins. It's spikes here, or at least it was 10 years ago when I last saw the person I watch for and ask about. Is he still alive? What a truly amazing story you've written.
Thank you very much for this, Chuck. Extremely helpful to see where to unpack and burn the language when I do a second draft. Also to look carefully at choice of words and gestures e.g. plywood, hand out as the reader will be looking back for these and a pay-off. My takeaway is not being afraid to slow down when building tension. Very much appreciated and thank you for reading!
I do that a lot with stories/chapters/scenes. And why critiques are so invaluable as sometimes there's a vague sense of it not being quite done, but the objective reading really helps break it down.
This story has such good authority. Your narrator clearly knows what they're talking about, and it makes me forget I'm reading, and instead, puts me inside the story. And good job keeping the camera pointed away from the narrator. This is something I've been practicing, and it takes real attention!
This line made me think the narrator had gone into this job to find her missing family member. This is where I really felt the tension: "Did you have a child? A boy? Looked a bit like me if I grew out my hair and wore a Spiderman t-shirt and just a nappy even though I was old enough for school?"
The practicing on oranges is an interesting visual, plus, an orange has smell and texture! Speaking of smell, I like how you associate the smell of citrus with Christmas and Mama. I was hoping that something would be related here to what the narrator is taking part in, and then you gave me this: "She's my mother. Do you know her?" Excellent work.
I love this line: "She weighs as much as a wet cat and smells like a dead one..."
Nice work with the maggots.
And I love this: "If you want to know what an ulcer smells like, switch off your fridge. Leave the food in there and go away for the summer. When you come home, turn on the heating and open the fridge."
I really enjoyed reading this. The first time I read it I loved how much authority it builds around the narrator. It was just as great this time around.
RE: “My Comments: If might be too cute or too pat, but would you consider the rescuer getting slugged in the nuts? That would cement the idea that he’d revived her with the injection. Your call.”
Maybe it wouldn’t be too cute if the rescuer got punched in the nuts first, then the earlier line was brought in. I dunno, just a thought.
On the most basic level, to me, it's about changing textures on the page. To my eye quotes occur as one texture, paraphrasing as another. Unless the texture changes I lose interest. It's similar to watching an object: unless it changes size and shape and location on my retina it seems to disappear.
Love this comment. Textures are the secret to keep Chuck reading! We got the recording angel, switching to some big voice, lists, switching to first person or third, onomatopoeia, instruction, slogans. And a bunch more.
It makes so much sense, because our brains react most to contrasts. Hence the smell of a dead raccoon on the side of the road is less noticeable beside a dead skunk, and after three hours stuck with a broken down car, they will both fade into the background.
Back in the MTV hey day sociologists condemned quick-cut video editing because they said it held the viewer captive in a constant state of anxiety. As each new image appears, in theory, the prey part of us has to determine if it's a threat or not. Thus constant changes would keep us transfixed and in constant fear of a predator.
I've always wondered if such on-going tension and baiting is what led to the demand for safe rooms and trigger warnings. I'd understand that need to avoid tension. Maybe Jack is right?
Most of the people I have met and spoken to who appreciate content warnings etc are people with PTSD, or people who regularly experience harassment racism discrimination etc.
I think exposing yourself to what makes you uncomfortable is very therapeutic, but maybe you also need to be ready for that.
By writing about it, you get to explore the issue in a controlled, crafted way. By putting outside yourself and escalating it to chaos, you exhaust your emotional reaction and become less triggered.
That was always Tom's idea behind "Dangerous Writing." Even if you never sold the piece, you did get some benefit from writing it. That, and your skill at writing improved. The emotion brings you, the writer, back to the work.
Did you read the story "Wickedness" about the blizzard? It's a series of anecdotes, but functions like a series of images -- note, video images usually include something moving. A series of static images would be like a slide show, and people hate those.
The irony is I'm 5'3 on a good day. Thank you, Jay. I do love a good smell description.
Thank you for posting these!
I wonder if there is a way to submit a chapter for review? Would love some insight.
🙏🏻
https://open.substack.com/pub/karijanz/p/episode-6-speedball
https://open.substack.com/pub/karijanz/p/episode-11-war
Hello, for the time being I'm asking people to post on the March 1st "A Call for Stories." That way I can find everyone in a single place and choose as randomly as possible.
Thank you for your response!
I'll do that :)
These notes are so so so good.
Congrats on the story, too. Giving this all another read once I'm back at my laptop.
“If you’re going in the neck or the groin, you’re getting too old for heroin”
This is such a great story, Katy! The way you effortlessly flow through the narrator’s body of knowledge is really well done. The buzzer and the repetition and the initials all come together and give the story a good rhythm, which makes it easier to appreciate all the subtle things you do.
I think stepping on the naloxone in the way Chuck suggested will really underscore that it isn’t used at the end. Leave the reader truly gut punched! Thanks for sharing it.
Hi Matt. Thanks for reading. I think you're right - remembering to bring objects though the story for the gut punch is so important.
I have really enjoyed these, thank you for doing them. I find them annoying, just a little bit, because you advance certain styles and techniques consistently and religiously. But it is immensely valuable because it is a particular perspective that forces the author (and us as readers) to *choose*. I don’t always agree with the recommendations or corrections that you make, but they always force me to think very hard about what I value and why. Which is really all you can ask from a critique.
Hi Jack. Thanks for reading. For me, I tend to agree with Chuck's suggestions because even now I still remember how rocked I was reading Fight Club when I was 16 and thinking, 'That's what I want to feel every time I'm reading.' Obviously each to their own, but as you say it to forces us to think and for me, makes me double check on what story I'm trying to tell so it doesn't get lost.
I love Chucks writing, too - it’s why we’re all here, right? I guess what I was trying to get at is that there is an invisible line between “writing well” and “writing like Chuck”. I went back and read about a dozen of these gloves off posts. Some of the advice he gave was incredibly good, but his best advice was helpful for the people who were trying (with mixed success) to write the kind of story that he writes.
Some of his tips are universally good (explore each of the senses, keep track of your objects, how would your character describe this, etc...). Others are more stylistic choices - submerge the I, in particular. Or avoiding tennis match dialogue and witty asides that’s distract from the tension.
As an example of what I’m finding simultaneously useful and frustrating - on the Jay Rollins gloves off from a week ago, he kept striking out the banter and quips because they distracted from the tension of the scene. It’s great advice, but... what about scenes where the banter and quips are the point? What about stories that arent dirty, grimy, gripping action?
After reading a bunch of these gloves off, I found a very distinct convergence in tone and style. I’d like to see him do more of these and explore different kinds of writing that have different challenges.
Again, it's just a suggestion. In high school my basketball coach asked me to wear ankle weights for a summer. Horrible eight-pound bags of sand that strapped around my ankles in the desert heat. It was awful, but it wasn't forever. It was awful, but that next season I was nailing rebounds and scoring points.
We learn by imitation. In Tom's workshop everyone went thru a funny stage of sounding like a bad Tom. I've written as a bad Stephen King, a bad Dorothy Parker, a very bad Hemingway, a bad Vonnegut. Eventually writers mix and match to create their own style and voice.
Thank you for your feedback, but I can't teach what I don't know. I'm sorry to disappoint you.
Hey, I suggest the elements and rules that have served me best. And they are just suggestions.
I explained more of what I meant in my response to Katy, so I’ll just reiterate here that I’d be super interested in seeing you examine and critique stories from a broader range of genres. I’m pretty new here and I’ve only read two or three dozen posts, so you may have covered a bunch of different types of writing in the past and I just missed it.
I think the primary thing I’m struggling with is that I find your advice incredibly helpful for writing action scenes. I instantly improved a couple things just by seeing you point them out in someone else’s writing - which is awesome!
On the other hand, Im not writing thrillers or page turners at the moment. A lot of your critiques involve cutting away the extraneous stuff to really immerse the reader in the action, and your tips are very effective for that. But what about the opposite kind of writing, where the story is just a vehicle for the meandering insights?
I’m sure that most of this is probably user error, in the sense that I haven’t properly internalized your heuristics so that I know when and where to apply them. But I’d love to see you analyze some stuff that is way different from the Fight Club vibe.
Again, thanks for asking, but I enjoy tension and drive and the joy of relief in fiction.
There's the old writing rule: Get into the scene late, and get out early. Drugs and music videos have given me such a short attention span. If you've subscribed on a monthly basis you're only out a few bucks.
Lol hey man, you’re not getting rid of me that easy!
I’ve really like the series, sorry if I came across too negative. And although I ’m not working on stuff in your wheelhouse at the moment, I’m sure I’ll take a spin at writing Bad Chuck when I think of a story that fits. Thanks again for doing these public critiques, and double thanks for being so responsive.
Wow, what an incredible story. Katy, I thought your name looked familiar, so I looked further in your Substack and saw that you also wrote Cradleland -- another one of my favorite Gloves Off stories. Consider me a fan. You're an extremely talented and engaging writer. I can't wait to see what you do next.
Thanks very much, Karin! And thank you for taking the time to read.
Before I read this Gloves Off, here's a story. A few days ago, I found this video of a mom driving in her car. She had been crying because her son was missing for a few days. So she calls her son's phone again and someone picks up. A lady said, "I'm from the medical examiner's office." The mom responds with, "Medical examiner? Is my son dead?"
Lady on the phone says, "Are you alone?"
The mom says, "My husband is here." And she shouts, "Is my son dead?"
The medical examiner says, "Can you pull over if you're driving?"
So they pull over and she asks if her son is dead. And she says yes. And the mom just breaks down in screams.
The reason why I'm sharing is because I caught myself thinking, that is a great example of how to maintain tension with evasive questions.
I don't know why my mind went there, totally bypassing this woman's pain. You've cemented the importance of tension in my mind so well, I'm in awe when I see examples in the wild.
Thank you, Chuck!
Creating tension is the biggest challenge for writers. Most of us avoid tension in life, and stress. So creating it is counter to our natural impulses. We have to learn to be troublemakers.
It's an interesting dynamic. You want to be understanding and empathetic to your own characters but at the same time, you want to put them through hell. It's pretty stressful lol
The story notes/comments are such a help and eye opener to the work of writing. Thanks Chuck! And thanks to all those who put their work up to the test
There's no slang for naloxone, not even in prisons.
Funny, isn't it? Everything else does.
Yep. Everything else unintelligible, that one thing plain language. 😁
My favourite prison slang is 'birdkiller' for Spice. It's because when you use it it distorts time to the point when you're unaware of it passing and your time in prison is 'bird'.
No, there are far too many to pick favorites. That's like picking a favorite child. 😂
The lexicon of prison is wildly creative. Chin check, backdoor parole, diesel therapy, break fluid, dinner and a show.
People in prison are exceptionally innovative, too. Grim determination sharpens the mind, it seems.
I work in a treatment center and haven't heard any slang for naloxone yet, though I recently met someone who used it and saved the life of the guy living in the tent next to him. I know they're giving it out free to any veteran who will take it here in Portland, Oregon, and I'm guessing anyone in the street life if they want it. I thought it was interesting that your needle slang is pins. It's spikes here, or at least it was 10 years ago when I last saw the person I watch for and ask about. Is he still alive? What a truly amazing story you've written.
Spikes still the most common term.
Is naloxone readily available across US?
Here it's a few dollars at the chemist without a prescription, as well as free doses given to people leaving prison, and at safe injecting rooms.
Don't know what it's like nationawide
Thank you very much for this, Chuck. Extremely helpful to see where to unpack and burn the language when I do a second draft. Also to look carefully at choice of words and gestures e.g. plywood, hand out as the reader will be looking back for these and a pay-off. My takeaway is not being afraid to slow down when building tension. Very much appreciated and thank you for reading!
Exactly. You did seem to rush a little toward the end.
I do that a lot with stories/chapters/scenes. And why critiques are so invaluable as sometimes there's a vague sense of it not being quite done, but the objective reading really helps break it down.
I think the nines refers to 999 (the brit version of 911.) May be wrong tho!
This was a terrific story. Thanks, Katy!
Chuck, would you consider doing a gloves off for a short story written by a traditionally published author?
Yep, 'dial the 9s' is 999. 'Blues and two' is for police/ambulance arriving with sirens on (which I didn't use, but maybe I will now).
Hi Katy! Glad to see your story on Gloves Off!
This story has such good authority. Your narrator clearly knows what they're talking about, and it makes me forget I'm reading, and instead, puts me inside the story. And good job keeping the camera pointed away from the narrator. This is something I've been practicing, and it takes real attention!
This line made me think the narrator had gone into this job to find her missing family member. This is where I really felt the tension: "Did you have a child? A boy? Looked a bit like me if I grew out my hair and wore a Spiderman t-shirt and just a nappy even though I was old enough for school?"
The practicing on oranges is an interesting visual, plus, an orange has smell and texture! Speaking of smell, I like how you associate the smell of citrus with Christmas and Mama. I was hoping that something would be related here to what the narrator is taking part in, and then you gave me this: "She's my mother. Do you know her?" Excellent work.
I love this line: "She weighs as much as a wet cat and smells like a dead one..."
Nice work with the maggots.
And I love this: "If you want to know what an ulcer smells like, switch off your fridge. Leave the food in there and go away for the summer. When you come home, turn on the heating and open the fridge."
Great story, Katy! Thank you for sharing.
Hi Maegan. Thank you for reading. You always leave such detailed feedback, so thank you. I will strive to match your level!
I really enjoyed reading this. The first time I read it I loved how much authority it builds around the narrator. It was just as great this time around.
RE: “My Comments: If might be too cute or too pat, but would you consider the rescuer getting slugged in the nuts? That would cement the idea that he’d revived her with the injection. Your call.”
Maybe it wouldn’t be too cute if the rescuer got punched in the nuts first, then the earlier line was brought in. I dunno, just a thought.
Hi Elliott. Thanks for reading (again). Nice suggestion and will have a look at working it in on the next draft.
For sure. And, seriously, great job. I can tell you’ve put a ton into this. The talent level of people in here is really wonderful.
Super outstanding story, Katy! It all feels so ‘lived’, did you have a job in this (oh boy) vein?
Hi Neil. Thank you and yes, my last job I spent a lot of time working in a Needle Exchange. Absolutely loved it.
Amazing piece
Thank you, Kelly.
Thanks for sharing Katy.
Chuck I’m wondering if deciding to paraphrase dialogue or not is about speeding up vs slowing down a scene?
On the most basic level, to me, it's about changing textures on the page. To my eye quotes occur as one texture, paraphrasing as another. Unless the texture changes I lose interest. It's similar to watching an object: unless it changes size and shape and location on my retina it seems to disappear.
Thanks for that
Love this comment. Textures are the secret to keep Chuck reading! We got the recording angel, switching to some big voice, lists, switching to first person or third, onomatopoeia, instruction, slogans. And a bunch more.
It makes so much sense, because our brains react most to contrasts. Hence the smell of a dead raccoon on the side of the road is less noticeable beside a dead skunk, and after three hours stuck with a broken down car, they will both fade into the background.
Back in the MTV hey day sociologists condemned quick-cut video editing because they said it held the viewer captive in a constant state of anxiety. As each new image appears, in theory, the prey part of us has to determine if it's a threat or not. Thus constant changes would keep us transfixed and in constant fear of a predator.
I've always wondered if such on-going tension and baiting is what led to the demand for safe rooms and trigger warnings. I'd understand that need to avoid tension. Maybe Jack is right?
I don't want people to run to safe rooms! That's it, I'm going back to tennis match dialogue. Sorry Chuck lol
Most of the people I have met and spoken to who appreciate content warnings etc are people with PTSD, or people who regularly experience harassment racism discrimination etc.
I think exposing yourself to what makes you uncomfortable is very therapeutic, but maybe you also need to be ready for that.
By writing about it, you get to explore the issue in a controlled, crafted way. By putting outside yourself and escalating it to chaos, you exhaust your emotional reaction and become less triggered.
That was always Tom's idea behind "Dangerous Writing." Even if you never sold the piece, you did get some benefit from writing it. That, and your skill at writing improved. The emotion brings you, the writer, back to the work.
I believe that its a big part of it. But also, a lack of adversity. Our lives are too easy. Lack of community too.
Most of us haven’t had much adversity.
Some people have had more than anyone should have to
If it helps, think "What would Bonnie Tyler do?"
Flying doves, blowing curtains, candles, Bonnie, fog machine, Bonnie, dancers, more doves.
Can you write a story like that? A series of images?
Did you read the story "Wickedness" about the blizzard? It's a series of anecdotes, but functions like a series of images -- note, video images usually include something moving. A series of static images would be like a slide show, and people hate those.