Sorry for off topic question, but do you have recommendations for non-fiction or memoir that qualifies as minimalism and that you consider great reads?
My impression is that all good nonfiction limits its elements and morphs them like Minimalism. The Krakauer book "Into the Wild," for instance. The Mary Roach books also.
Decades back the lead investigator in the Westley Allan Dodd serial killer case, well, he asked me to read his nonfiction manuscript about the same. It was proof that bad writing can botch even the most fascinating subject. I'd offered to help him use some Minimalism, but he didn't want to rewrite a word. (insert big shrug here)
After some reflection, it strikes me that fiction and nonfiction work in opposite directions. Nonfiction states its premise up front, then supports that with bits of evidence. Fiction begins with bits of evidence that build toward the overall premise. In both cases, it's the bits of evidence that must be clear and specific in order to lodge in the reader's mind.
Those sound lovely. I'm currently reading "Bird Box" and I just love it. The Satanic Temple is letting me do my own Satanic story readings show! It will be on The Satanic Temple TV website!
I will! The show doesn't sound very cool when you say it like that Joe G. but that's the truth isn't it? lol It's called "Cheap & Crass Satanic Story time starring Cheap & Crass" *Jazz hands*
Chuck, I’ve just finished reading Invisible Monsters Remix.Some nice, oh I didn’t see that coming, moments. 😊 I’m going to read it again, but choose each chapter at random. Then I might read it beginning to end like a standard novel.
Brian was my thesis mentor for my MFA. He is one of the most kind and generous people I have ever known. I’ve sent him this! He’s a very wonderful person.
Thank you! I tried to contact him via his gmail, but didn't hear back. Every time you endorse someone's work you're praying "please don't let this person be a douche..."
Brian was at the Portland Book Fest this afternoon, on stage with Stephen Graham Jones. He talked about having a preference for short fiction but loving both stories and novels. One of my good writer friend's knows Brian and guarantees he's not a douche. (Also, Stephen Graham Jones talked about flash fiction and if he could, he'd just write flash.)
Hey, Chuck, I reached out to Brian! He said he doesn’t see an email from you but it may have been deleted from Spam on accident and to please email him again at brianevenson@gmail.com as he would love to connect. He is frequently in the Portland area too.
Hey Chuck, in a recent video you spoke about how good ideas/stories always seem to erupt from you in one sitting — e.g. Chapter 6 of ‘Fight Club’ being written in an evening whilst you were at work. And I’m curious, how do you maintain this type of momentum for the duration of an entire novel? A short story I can understand, though for a novel that’s where I’m curious about the maintaining of momentum over time. I imagine it’s not one overall burst of momentum but rather a series of bursts of momentum for each individual chapter, section, scene, or whatever it may be. In the end, however, I suppose the individual bursts of energy are part of one much larger culminating effort.
Good question. During a "flurry" of stories, each little manic idea seems to depict the same elements but in a different setting. And each seems to depict an archetypal plot point. The meet-cute, for instance. As I collect stories I see how the larger novel is crystalizing from a dozen different centers. Each story is reaching out to the others. Each story is an experiment in choruses or transition devices. Eventually I can place the stories in some sequence, then I know what scenes need to be written to bridge them. At that point the book's voice is established. The bridge chapters are a little bland -- compared to the short stories/chapters -- but they do their jobs.
The stories that went into "Shock Induction" included the climbing-the-stained-glass-window story... the two people trapped in a septic tank story... the cam guy dying of a heart attack story... the Mindy story (originally published in Playboy)... and others. Again, if the reader/viewer only enjoys 30% (10% ?) of the whole, they will walk away thinking they've enjoyed the whole.
Hey John, was it you who sent the book on film editing? Many of the essays were so aimed at editors that I couldn't relate (film v. digital for instance). But the essay on "blinking" and how it might be nature's way of editing life... that was brilliant. Thank you.
Yes. That was the most important part, and I keep it in mind when intercutting. I think I marked those 2 important sections before I mailed it.
Planning to send you this collection of Milton Erickson's papers if I ever get around to reading it first. Hes some kind of godfather of hypnosis. Believe that I heard of him from Robert Greene.
And this story was already romance/horror. First draft was a turd (sorry matt/sean/craig), but its shaping up much better now thanks to those guys. Needed a lot more psychological dread.
That’s a really interesting answer. What you say about archetypal plot points and the book’s voice being established reminded me of a lecture back at uni focused on Burroughs’ “Naked Lunch” and J. G. Ballard’s “The Atrocity Exhibition”; two books with disjointed narratives - if they debatably can even be called narratives - but which nevertheless have a consistent theme and voice present throughout them in the series of vignettes and short stories that comprise the books
Also, I can vividly remember reading the first chapter of “Shock Induction” with the climbing of the broken stained-glass-window back when it was “Greener Pastures” and posted on here. I was on a train headed to university and that opening chapter helped make that train ride go faster.
It's sweet the way a good story freezes the context in which you read it. I bought my first copy of 'Bright Lights, Big City' just as I was boarding a train. Each viewing of 'Sunset Boulevard' takes me back to being a child kept home with the flu and watching some morning movie on television, thinking "What is THIS creepy thing?"
Hey Chuck, I briefly wandered through Barnes and Nobles today and searched for your books. I didn't know where they put your stuff and wanted to ask the person at the desk but was too shy. I went over to the horror section, expecting just Stephen King, but I look at a random spot and saw four copies of Fight Club. Next to it, I saw Not Forever, But For Now. And then Damned, Doomed, two copies of Invisible Monsters, and a Haunted. Haven't been to a bookstore in a while and it was nice seeing you there. Couldn't really get anything because I was with a few family members who were in a rush to leave. Whenever I find your books in the wild, it's like a nice hello from you personally. Is that weird to say?
And November 23rd is my father's bday. He would have been...79.
I feel like Chuck’s books weren’t always in horror, but instead the more generic “fiction” section. It was maybe in the last few years that I noticed the move to horror, which felt odd at first - but ultimately expanded my definition of the genre.
Agreed. I never really considered Chuck's stories to be strictly horror. Sounds odd to write that but I guess my scope of what counts as horror was very limited. I'm like, what are Chuck's books doing in the Stephen King section? But yeah, I always saw Chuck's book as general fiction more than any other category. With the stories he writes, he doesn't make it easy either. But next time I go, I'm putting those Fight Clubs in the Romance section, I don't even care, we're expanding that genre lol
Back in 1996 my editor labeled the books "transgressive" akin to 'American Psycho' and 'Trainspotting' -- characters breaking rules in order to discover life. Post 911 'transgressive fiction' became synonymous with terrorism, so I pushed toward writing some form of horror.
Looking back I realize that I suffered the same as Vonnegut, who went nuts whenever his work was called science fiction. When I see the "funny" covers put on 'Invention of Sound' and 'Tell-All' I want to start slitting throats. I'm not Dave Barry.
To me... my books are romances: People bond: They survive trials and recognize one another for their true selves.
Please, do something to remember your father on the 23rd. Please.
I have my dad's urn in my room. Every time I walk by it, I apologize. Part of me wants to think he'd love me regardless because I'm still his son. But still, there's that thought that he might be massively disappointed because I'm not all I can be. He had immense talent for everything art and my mom hated it when I put on my Facebook that talent skips a generation. I remember sitting in the backseat of his truck. We were waiting outside of some place, maybe a school, I was just a kid at the time. He pointed to some random guy walking on the sidewalk and said, "Hey Joe, look at him." And then he started sketching, and about 30 seconds later, he showed me what he did. It was like he took a snapshot with his hand. Such a cool moment.
I have a hard time recalling these because it's just too sad. And I can't tell you whether I stopped or started to grieve.
Brian Evenson's work is great. He also does some work under the name B.K. Evenson, usually leaning heavier into genre and licensed stuff. His Dead Space and Aliens books under that pseudonym were very enjoyable.
Oy, the trend towards “find a readership via social media.” I get it…that’s the way of the world. But as someone who begrudgingly created an IG account a couple years ago purely to raise awareness for a brain cancer fundraiser, I wish there was another way to gain traction. I see some of the BookTok garbage and can’t help but shake my head - while also acknowledging they have published books and I do not, so….
Have I ever sounded older?
Anyways. I’m on the prowl for a new read. Rosemary’s Baby was a possibility, and this Brian Evenson book has me intrigued. As someone who plays around with flash fiction/microfiction quite often, I love to hear he started the book with one.
Putting a flash fiction story first is a great idea. It's like a try-before-you-buy kind of thing before you get invested fully. Thanks for putting me on to that.
I’m looking forward to it. I’ve been following along with other authors on here who post micro fiction prompts. It’s a fun challenge to tell a story in 50 words.
Hey Chuck! If we order via Dark Delicacies website for delivery, are you able to inscribe whilst there too please? Going to place an order but can't see a spot for notes
Sorry for off topic question, but do you have recommendations for non-fiction or memoir that qualifies as minimalism and that you consider great reads?
Hello Saul. That's a tough one. Let me chew it over.
'Girl, Interrupted' by Susanna Kaysen sprang to mind.
My impression is that all good nonfiction limits its elements and morphs them like Minimalism. The Krakauer book "Into the Wild," for instance. The Mary Roach books also.
Decades back the lead investigator in the Westley Allan Dodd serial killer case, well, he asked me to read his nonfiction manuscript about the same. It was proof that bad writing can botch even the most fascinating subject. I'd offered to help him use some Minimalism, but he didn't want to rewrite a word. (insert big shrug here)
https://murderpedia.org/male.D/d1/dodd-westley-allan.htm
After some reflection, it strikes me that fiction and nonfiction work in opposite directions. Nonfiction states its premise up front, then supports that with bits of evidence. Fiction begins with bits of evidence that build toward the overall premise. In both cases, it's the bits of evidence that must be clear and specific in order to lodge in the reader's mind.
Those sound lovely. I'm currently reading "Bird Box" and I just love it. The Satanic Temple is letting me do my own Satanic story readings show! It will be on The Satanic Temple TV website!
!!!!!!!
Please send me a DM so I can watch you read!
I will! The show doesn't sound very cool when you say it like that Joe G. but that's the truth isn't it? lol It's called "Cheap & Crass Satanic Story time starring Cheap & Crass" *Jazz hands*
Chuck, I’ve just finished reading Invisible Monsters Remix.Some nice, oh I didn’t see that coming, moments. 😊 I’m going to read it again, but choose each chapter at random. Then I might read it beginning to end like a standard novel.
You might also look for 'Hopscotch' as an experiment.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hopscotch_(Cort%C3%A1zar_novel)
Brian was my thesis mentor for my MFA. He is one of the most kind and generous people I have ever known. I’ve sent him this! He’s a very wonderful person.
Thank you! I tried to contact him via his gmail, but didn't hear back. Every time you endorse someone's work you're praying "please don't let this person be a douche..."
Brian was at the Portland Book Fest this afternoon, on stage with Stephen Graham Jones. He talked about having a preference for short fiction but loving both stories and novels. One of my good writer friend's knows Brian and guarantees he's not a douche. (Also, Stephen Graham Jones talked about flash fiction and if he could, he'd just write flash.)
Hey, Chuck, I reached out to Brian! He said he doesn’t see an email from you but it may have been deleted from Spam on accident and to please email him again at brianevenson@gmail.com as he would love to connect. He is frequently in the Portland area too.
Thanks! I'll be in contact.
Added two of his books to the pile I’ve to read after school.
Hey Chuck, in a recent video you spoke about how good ideas/stories always seem to erupt from you in one sitting — e.g. Chapter 6 of ‘Fight Club’ being written in an evening whilst you were at work. And I’m curious, how do you maintain this type of momentum for the duration of an entire novel? A short story I can understand, though for a novel that’s where I’m curious about the maintaining of momentum over time. I imagine it’s not one overall burst of momentum but rather a series of bursts of momentum for each individual chapter, section, scene, or whatever it may be. In the end, however, I suppose the individual bursts of energy are part of one much larger culminating effort.
Good question. During a "flurry" of stories, each little manic idea seems to depict the same elements but in a different setting. And each seems to depict an archetypal plot point. The meet-cute, for instance. As I collect stories I see how the larger novel is crystalizing from a dozen different centers. Each story is reaching out to the others. Each story is an experiment in choruses or transition devices. Eventually I can place the stories in some sequence, then I know what scenes need to be written to bridge them. At that point the book's voice is established. The bridge chapters are a little bland -- compared to the short stories/chapters -- but they do their jobs.
The stories that went into "Shock Induction" included the climbing-the-stained-glass-window story... the two people trapped in a septic tank story... the cam guy dying of a heart attack story... the Mindy story (originally published in Playboy)... and others. Again, if the reader/viewer only enjoys 30% (10% ?) of the whole, they will walk away thinking they've enjoyed the whole.
Writing a romantic horrific Christmas short for the contest.
That's it. Cover all the bases.
Hey John, was it you who sent the book on film editing? Many of the essays were so aimed at editors that I couldn't relate (film v. digital for instance). But the essay on "blinking" and how it might be nature's way of editing life... that was brilliant. Thank you.
Yes. That was the most important part, and I keep it in mind when intercutting. I think I marked those 2 important sections before I mailed it.
Planning to send you this collection of Milton Erickson's papers if I ever get around to reading it first. Hes some kind of godfather of hypnosis. Believe that I heard of him from Robert Greene.
And this story was already romance/horror. First draft was a turd (sorry matt/sean/craig), but its shaping up much better now thanks to those guys. Needed a lot more psychological dread.
That’s a really interesting answer. What you say about archetypal plot points and the book’s voice being established reminded me of a lecture back at uni focused on Burroughs’ “Naked Lunch” and J. G. Ballard’s “The Atrocity Exhibition”; two books with disjointed narratives - if they debatably can even be called narratives - but which nevertheless have a consistent theme and voice present throughout them in the series of vignettes and short stories that comprise the books
Also, I can vividly remember reading the first chapter of “Shock Induction” with the climbing of the broken stained-glass-window back when it was “Greener Pastures” and posted on here. I was on a train headed to university and that opening chapter helped make that train ride go faster.
It's sweet the way a good story freezes the context in which you read it. I bought my first copy of 'Bright Lights, Big City' just as I was boarding a train. Each viewing of 'Sunset Boulevard' takes me back to being a child kept home with the flu and watching some morning movie on television, thinking "What is THIS creepy thing?"
Small world! I picked up Good Night, Sleep Tight a few weeks ago, and will move it up in the pile.
Enjoy.
Dang, when can I get my copy of Shock Induction signed? You know without traveling to California.
I feel like I revised my essay enough to submit to ML Column at the MYT in the next week. Then it's off to writing a holiday horror story.
Hold your horses. It's a small world.
Well I don't run into famous author's at my local grocery stores.
Hey Chuck, I briefly wandered through Barnes and Nobles today and searched for your books. I didn't know where they put your stuff and wanted to ask the person at the desk but was too shy. I went over to the horror section, expecting just Stephen King, but I look at a random spot and saw four copies of Fight Club. Next to it, I saw Not Forever, But For Now. And then Damned, Doomed, two copies of Invisible Monsters, and a Haunted. Haven't been to a bookstore in a while and it was nice seeing you there. Couldn't really get anything because I was with a few family members who were in a rush to leave. Whenever I find your books in the wild, it's like a nice hello from you personally. Is that weird to say?
And November 23rd is my father's bday. He would have been...79.
I feel like Chuck’s books weren’t always in horror, but instead the more generic “fiction” section. It was maybe in the last few years that I noticed the move to horror, which felt odd at first - but ultimately expanded my definition of the genre.
Agreed. I never really considered Chuck's stories to be strictly horror. Sounds odd to write that but I guess my scope of what counts as horror was very limited. I'm like, what are Chuck's books doing in the Stephen King section? But yeah, I always saw Chuck's book as general fiction more than any other category. With the stories he writes, he doesn't make it easy either. But next time I go, I'm putting those Fight Clubs in the Romance section, I don't even care, we're expanding that genre lol
Back in 1996 my editor labeled the books "transgressive" akin to 'American Psycho' and 'Trainspotting' -- characters breaking rules in order to discover life. Post 911 'transgressive fiction' became synonymous with terrorism, so I pushed toward writing some form of horror.
Looking back I realize that I suffered the same as Vonnegut, who went nuts whenever his work was called science fiction. When I see the "funny" covers put on 'Invention of Sound' and 'Tell-All' I want to start slitting throats. I'm not Dave Barry.
To me... my books are romances: People bond: They survive trials and recognize one another for their true selves.
Please, do something to remember your father on the 23rd. Please.
I have my dad's urn in my room. Every time I walk by it, I apologize. Part of me wants to think he'd love me regardless because I'm still his son. But still, there's that thought that he might be massively disappointed because I'm not all I can be. He had immense talent for everything art and my mom hated it when I put on my Facebook that talent skips a generation. I remember sitting in the backseat of his truck. We were waiting outside of some place, maybe a school, I was just a kid at the time. He pointed to some random guy walking on the sidewalk and said, "Hey Joe, look at him." And then he started sketching, and about 30 seconds later, he showed me what he did. It was like he took a snapshot with his hand. Such a cool moment.
I have a hard time recalling these because it's just too sad. And I can't tell you whether I stopped or started to grieve.
Brian Evenson's work is great. He also does some work under the name B.K. Evenson, usually leaning heavier into genre and licensed stuff. His Dead Space and Aliens books under that pseudonym were very enjoyable.
Oy, the trend towards “find a readership via social media.” I get it…that’s the way of the world. But as someone who begrudgingly created an IG account a couple years ago purely to raise awareness for a brain cancer fundraiser, I wish there was another way to gain traction. I see some of the BookTok garbage and can’t help but shake my head - while also acknowledging they have published books and I do not, so….
Have I ever sounded older?
Anyways. I’m on the prowl for a new read. Rosemary’s Baby was a possibility, and this Brian Evenson book has me intrigued. As someone who plays around with flash fiction/microfiction quite often, I love to hear he started the book with one.
Putting a flash fiction story first is a great idea. It's like a try-before-you-buy kind of thing before you get invested fully. Thanks for putting me on to that.
I’d do the same. I’ve been writing a lot of micro recently, and I’d put a few of them in a story collection. It is a clever idea.
Just wait, I have a flash fiction exercise to post later today. Unlike anything you've ever tried.
I’m looking forward to it. I’ve been following along with other authors on here who post micro fiction prompts. It’s a fun challenge to tell a story in 50 words.
In a way it works like the "gripper" scene on the front of a movie.
I haven’t heard of this author.
Hey Chuck! If we order via Dark Delicacies website for delivery, are you able to inscribe whilst there too please? Going to place an order but can't see a spot for notes
Just realised the comment section appears right at the end of the order. Done!