"Other recent 'woke' flops are Carolyn Ferrell's 'Dear Miss Metropolitan' described by the New York Times as 'a story of three young girls, Black and biracial, who are kidnapped and thrown into the basement of a decaying house in Queens.'"
It's always interesting to watch change. Do you recall when Bennett Cerf was the face of big, three-martini-lunch publishing? He had a country house he called "The Columns" named for the syndicated newspaper column he wrote about publishing and books. Yes! People wanted to read about publishing in their daily newspaper! That's kinda meta.
Anyway. The columns paid for The Columns.
Jonathan Franzen wrote a great think-piece, years ago, about how publishing was fracturing and "diversifying." The more things change...
Maybe they should market radical, far-left books as something that also doubles as toilet paper. Might help to sell some of the stock as people are always going to need to wipe their ass with something.
Simon Hanselmann has a book, for the bathroom, wrapped in an orange plastic cover, called a "piss guard." Added functionality, like Cosmo Kramer's coffee table book that folds into a coffee table, seems popular.
One time, I was talking to a girl about music, about bands we liked or singers we listened to, and after I made a short list of my favourites, she just turned and said, oh yeah my dad likes those too. I am accustomed to being deeply uncool.
I will have listened to Xmas Card From a Hooker... at least 100 times by the New Year. That song sure does make me feel some kind of way. Its such an amazing story, with a great twist at the end.
It's a fantastic song and, I think, similar to 'Martha', in that there's this conversation over the phone that's all about playing it cool, but there's a longing and a twist and it's just so beautiful. Absolute musical hero.
I like what you said Chuck but not the daily mail article. I'm not white and I didn't find any editor to take on my debut because they didn't know where it fits. I guess the industry doesn't pause to consider the skin colour of the young talent it crushes.
It's sort of weird that I haven't heard of either of the novels. I'm curious how they were marketed, exactly. Was it assumed TikTok word-of-mouth would be enough?
I haven't heard of them either. I have a feeling this writer had to dig deep to cherry-pick examples to fit their narrative. There have been plenty of books the Daily Mail would consider "woke" that have been tremendously successful in the past couple years. (Likewise, I'm sure one could find just as many right-leaning books that flopped.)
Exactly. I have a friend who works at one of the big publishing houses here in NY, and I recently asked him if it's true that white men are being published less these days. He laughed and said that's nonsense. (My "evidence" here is admittedly anecdotal -- but so is theirs.)
Barring satire, contemporary, overtly political fiction—especially in the realm of identity politics—is off-putting. Even if you have an agenda, if the work reads like it was written by an ideologue, then you’re writing for an echo chamber audience, which doesn’t boast much for progress. I say this as someone who struggles with dogma in my writing.
I’m indifferent toward the political leanings of memoirs but when they’re written to exploit current events, it’s yucky. I suppose the safety net of a ‘memoir’ provides room for future capitulation and backpedaling apologetics, as opposed to an autobiography, which ultimately concludes with your ‘true self’.
The phrase "woke books" made me chuckle. But I think I understand your point. Writers should be leading the culture, or attempt to lead the culture, not ride the waves of trendy subjects for the hopes of more attention. But isn't leading with a new idea a big risk? You could fail and look stupid and then nobody will love you until after you die! Maybe that's why jumping on the bandwagon of what's popular seems like the safe option.
We need someone to push the balance in the opposite direction so that some new doors to open for authors that are currently ignored because they don’t align to the mainstream political agenda
With the risk of being incomplete I prefer to avoid using Chuck’s platform for a political debate that could easily glide in some ugly directions. But I think you already have an idea of what I meant
Fair enough. I’m not trying to be ugly though. I might have an idea what you mean but I’d prefer to know before I reply. Anyway, I’m happy to leave it there.
Dec 2, 2023·edited Dec 2, 2023Liked by Chuck Palahniuk
In the UK, The Mail is aka The Daily Heil. The comments section of the online edition always seems to have someone scandalised enough to write: I HAVE NO WORDS - especially if it's a 'woke' story. Its target reader is a particular kind of easily enraged but ultimately impotent middle-england suburbanite xenophobe. It's a giggle.
Which is odd, since 'woke' is almost exclusively an American concept. It's not really gained traction in other countries, other than MSM trying to make it a thing.
The right here, down under, give it a good whirl from time to time, but it's a bit like trying to sell Starbucks coffee in Melbourne: no one is buying that pathetic American crap. 😁
Sometimes we have the collective good sense not to adopt American culture and politics.
I try to leave out any public figure that would place my story at a specific time. I feel like it's hard to use technology in the story and not date it, since it changes faster than any president
I did. (sic)
I did not know a book could be woke. Interesting.
"Other recent 'woke' flops are Carolyn Ferrell's 'Dear Miss Metropolitan' described by the New York Times as 'a story of three young girls, Black and biracial, who are kidnapped and thrown into the basement of a decaying house in Queens.'"
"Woke" = Not about straight white people 🙄
Ah! Thanks!
Exactly! They bucket Elliot's book under woke rather than the overpaid celebrity memoir bucket.
Right! I'm one of those pro-trans "woke snowflake" people, and I have zero interest in reading that book because celebrity memoirs don't interest me.
Also, Elliot Page is an actor, not a writer. Maybe the book just isn't very good.
It's always interesting to watch change. Do you recall when Bennett Cerf was the face of big, three-martini-lunch publishing? He had a country house he called "The Columns" named for the syndicated newspaper column he wrote about publishing and books. Yes! People wanted to read about publishing in their daily newspaper! That's kinda meta.
Anyway. The columns paid for The Columns.
Jonathan Franzen wrote a great think-piece, years ago, about how publishing was fracturing and "diversifying." The more things change...
I am genuinely gob smacked with the size of the advance for Elliott. Who in publishing thought the book would have wide interest?
He's an actor, done some good work (not a celebrity).
Gender transition stories, I would have thought self evidently, don't have a huge market.
One of my favourite pieces of advice I ever heard was “when they zig, you zag”.
So true.
Well, this little spder I'm circulating now is... heh heh heh, We'll see how it does.
Maybe they should market radical, far-left books as something that also doubles as toilet paper. Might help to sell some of the stock as people are always going to need to wipe their ass with something.
When you consider how many books reside in the bathroom, ready for toilet reading, yours is kind of a brill idea.
A shameful secret? Some work of mine is printed in a book anthology that is based solely around the gimmick of reading whilst on the porcelain throne.
getting read by someone is good. who cares where they choose to do it. 👍😀
Verbatim
You supplied interesting facts to Uncle John's Bathroom Reader?
Simon Hanselmann has a book, for the bathroom, wrapped in an orange plastic cover, called a "piss guard." Added functionality, like Cosmo Kramer's coffee table book that folds into a coffee table, seems popular.
I'm impressed people can write entire books fast enough to refelect current affairs. I'd be lucky if I could capture things happening in 2002.
Right? Every time I discover a "new" band, it's been defunct for a decade.
One time, I was talking to a girl about music, about bands we liked or singers we listened to, and after I made a short list of my favourites, she just turned and said, oh yeah my dad likes those too. I am accustomed to being deeply uncool.
I want everyone to love my obscure Xmas song playlist as much as I do. https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLGNRN3buESD11rqd9L1v53Ex9tME0dQEg&si=VuhcOFNorO1ozNVS
Dracula doing The Little Drummer Boy is my kind of Christmas
Ronnie James Dio singing about God and Christmas is wondrous too.
Any playlist that starts with Tom Waits already has my full attention.
Theres more Tom if you stick with it long enough.
I will have listened to Xmas Card From a Hooker... at least 100 times by the New Year. That song sure does make me feel some kind of way. Its such an amazing story, with a great twist at the end.
It's a fantastic song and, I think, similar to 'Martha', in that there's this conversation over the phone that's all about playing it cool, but there's a longing and a twist and it's just so beautiful. Absolute musical hero.
...at least.
Same. By the time I'm done, I have to edit for new technology or social media that didn't exist when I started.
Perfect! Then with each editing cycle you have to revise, then it's obsolete upon publication. So let's just set every story in 1982, shall we?
Or I could let the cycles continue and never have to risk putting myself out there.
Hey, wait. Maybe this is the real reason behind all the 80s nostalgia these days.
Have you seen Doubt? Think the priest was being truthful?
I like what you said Chuck but not the daily mail article. I'm not white and I didn't find any editor to take on my debut because they didn't know where it fits. I guess the industry doesn't pause to consider the skin colour of the young talent it crushes.
My advice? Crush back. Smart editors kinda love that.
If they ever read my email :)
It's sort of weird that I haven't heard of either of the novels. I'm curious how they were marketed, exactly. Was it assumed TikTok word-of-mouth would be enough?
I haven't heard of them either. I have a feeling this writer had to dig deep to cherry-pick examples to fit their narrative. There have been plenty of books the Daily Mail would consider "woke" that have been tremendously successful in the past couple years. (Likewise, I'm sure one could find just as many right-leaning books that flopped.)
Good point. Decades back Pat Buchanan wrote a thriller, trying to exploit the "Left Behind" trend, and the book failed spectacularly.
Very good point.
There’s also the fact a lot of this article hinges on “The Free Press” said so
Exactly. I have a friend who works at one of the big publishing houses here in NY, and I recently asked him if it's true that white men are being published less these days. He laughed and said that's nonsense. (My "evidence" here is admittedly anecdotal -- but so is theirs.)
Yeah. Poor James Patterson. 😂
Barring satire, contemporary, overtly political fiction—especially in the realm of identity politics—is off-putting. Even if you have an agenda, if the work reads like it was written by an ideologue, then you’re writing for an echo chamber audience, which doesn’t boast much for progress. I say this as someone who struggles with dogma in my writing.
I’m indifferent toward the political leanings of memoirs but when they’re written to exploit current events, it’s yucky. I suppose the safety net of a ‘memoir’ provides room for future capitulation and backpedaling apologetics, as opposed to an autobiography, which ultimately concludes with your ‘true self’.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bLBtSAoQqkw
The phrase "woke books" made me chuckle. But I think I understand your point. Writers should be leading the culture, or attempt to lead the culture, not ride the waves of trendy subjects for the hopes of more attention. But isn't leading with a new idea a big risk? You could fail and look stupid and then nobody will love you until after you die! Maybe that's why jumping on the bandwagon of what's popular seems like the safe option.
And then you still die. So not fair.
I get your point Chuck, but I hate the Daily Mail and its vendatta against anything it considers 'woke'.
Vendetta or not, do you think something like Fight Club would have been printed today?
I don’t know. But also I’m not sure how that question relates to my comment.
We need someone to push the balance in the opposite direction so that some new doors to open for authors that are currently ignored because they don’t align to the mainstream political agenda
What do you consider to be the mainstream political agenda?
With the risk of being incomplete I prefer to avoid using Chuck’s platform for a political debate that could easily glide in some ugly directions. But I think you already have an idea of what I meant
Fair enough. I’m not trying to be ugly though. I might have an idea what you mean but I’d prefer to know before I reply. Anyway, I’m happy to leave it there.
In the 'States the Daily Mail is just foreign enough that it occurs as novel and possibly insider. Like the metric system. And the Page Three Girl.
In the UK, The Mail is aka The Daily Heil. The comments section of the online edition always seems to have someone scandalised enough to write: I HAVE NO WORDS - especially if it's a 'woke' story. Its target reader is a particular kind of easily enraged but ultimately impotent middle-england suburbanite xenophobe. It's a giggle.
Which is odd, since 'woke' is almost exclusively an American concept. It's not really gained traction in other countries, other than MSM trying to make it a thing.
Here in the UK woke has been hijacked by the right and turned into an insult. ‘The tofu eating wokerati.’
The right here, down under, give it a good whirl from time to time, but it's a bit like trying to sell Starbucks coffee in Melbourne: no one is buying that pathetic American crap. 😁
Sometimes we have the collective good sense not to adopt American culture and politics.
Oh if only we were the same. 😂
😂
I try to leave out any public figure that would place my story at a specific time. I feel like it's hard to use technology in the story and not date it, since it changes faster than any president
Lol @ the Daily Mail link
Golden 👌🔥