Good one! Well you were talking about cymbal-ism. Anyway I'll shut up now (with the puns)...they hurt me (cringe) more than they hurt you! hahaha
Loved Episode 1 of the podcast btw. Good to "meet" another member of the "office case hall of fame" ;) We need to give you something to recognize all you have given us. The time and care (not to mention $) you put into those necklaces and gift boxes, and even the personal stories you share, really compel people to reciprocate not only to you, but also to pay it forward to other people.
As for remembering touch, I had a dentist's appointment not long after I met you in KC in '06 (and we hugged at the end). I got through the unpleasantness of the procedure by re-experiencing the sensation of your hand on my back. After the reading I counted my blessings, thinking "with those muscles of yours, you could have crushed me like a bug!" haha So you just never know how what goes through people's minds.
IF ever you want to start a "jokes/puns/word play" thread on here, I'm definitely up for it! It's kinda one of my hobbies on FB (and in real life).
Can you hammer more on “gestures > dialogue > thoughts” either here or in a future post? In the context of your other comments on minimalism, I understand you to be saying creating a visual makes the reader respond with their own thoughts, therefore a gesture makes a more meaningful/powerful story. You provide great object examples here, but does the maxim apply to physical expressions also, like a finger-snap or an arched eyebrow? A tomahawk > “I miss our passionate youth and have regrets,” but would you also say a slap > “hands off, cretin!” Hmmm, now that I write it out, I see that it’s true.
According to the science I've seen written up, if you can evoke a sympathetic physical reaction in the reader/viewer, you create a permanent memory in their body. Last week I talked to a friend whose only memory of 'Stir of Echoes' is the girl's fingernail breaking. The film 'The Ring' also uses the (repeatedly) broken fingernail to create a full-body moment of horror. So, yes, a strong physical moment creates memory.
But over the plot of a book you need a souvenir to recall that memory. Thus the kiss-shaped scars in 'Fight Club.' And you want a variety of methods for recalling history or plot points: Objects, choruses, scars, they all work, but you can't rely too heavily on any single one.
Great lesson here. Also shows how past generations were a lot more sentimental, attached more meaning to things than people do today. Try to imagine Megan Fox or Channing Tatum or whoever doing this sort of thing.
In the "Own Nothing" generation, I wonder how objects will fare. I'd wager that people will always be attached to objects because objects prompt memories or express an emotion. Or display status. Note all the jewelry advertising we see going into the holidays. "Express your love for her with a stacked three-stone infinity cocktail ring of chocolate diamonds..." Every year a new gimmick is foisted on people -- remember the push to wear "cocktail rings" on the right hand? -- because people (men) have limited ability to express love.
Even worse, men are "hard to buy for" so women are prodded to buy 'Stetson' cologne. We have objects because we have emotions to express and rituals that require exchanging objects. Flowers and candy are ideal because they don't become a burden. But a story needs an enduring object or scar or chorus to keep the back story present.
I NEEEEED MORE GREENER PASSTURES, I NEED IT NOWWWWWW! oh yeah, this is real good info too. Saving to my “Advice from Chuck” file on the desktop. I have a bracelet in my current WIP that I am attempting to do this morph thing with.
Nice. Remember in 'Citizen Kane' how the only things Charles Kane ever gave Susan Alexander were bracelets? Finally her arms were overloaded with flashing gem-studded bracelets. As objects they morphed from expression of love to demonstrations of bondage.
Hard to binge watch this one. With the serialized things I enjoy I just look forward to the morning each launches, and I'll even put off reading it so I'll savor it more.
It’s really good. I like to read once for pleasure, once for study, and once more for the heck of it. Nice digestible length and ends on a page turner. Diggin’ it for sure.
Great Post, thank you ❤️. I just finished the podcast today (a second series would be very much appreciated!) and I found it interesting that you mentioned writing stories in the form that songs are written. Is this something you plan on covering in a craft essay at some point? (I do remember your lessons on choruses from the cult/litreactor but this sounded more like you were talking about structure and it piqued my curiosity)
Yes, and thanks. I'll be tackling stories as songs. I came of age during the great "ballad era" in popular music. 'The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald' and 'The Night the Lights Went Out in Georgia' and 'Bad, Bad Leroy Brown' and 'The Gambler' and 'Angie Baby' and 'Ode to Billie Joe.' Give a listen https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZt5Q-u4crc
"It was the third of June, another sleepy, dusty delta day..." Every song on AM radio was a story. Combine that influence with punk, and voila -- that's my style.
Regarding they shoot horse starter pistol: you know I was convinced that Gloria took the gun from Rocky after she found that the competition was unwinnable because (it fitted with my idea of her breaking point) and I knew there was another rally after she sleeps with him, but I just rewatched those scenes and they don't show the 2nd rally being started with the gun! Which completely throws questions on how Rocky viewed Gloria's state of mind, because surely he noticed his gun was missing, right?
Consider every ring in every story. Remember the ring in 'Harold & Maude'? First Harold is making a mysterious thing. Then he presents it to Maude, and we see it's a ring. Then she reads the inscription aloud, thus reducing the gesture to language. Then she trumps the object and the language with a new gesture: She throws the ring into the ocean. Then she gives the big line to explain herself. In regard to the lost ring: "So I'll always know where it's at."
This sticks as a glorious moment because it builds as activity, gesture, object, summary language.
And don't overthink Gloria. Focus on the method of storytelling.
I wonder what the rumors would have been like at the time. You know, all the whispers about how "they shoot the horses" - the fear that maybe more horses were going to get shot. It all starts to unravel, and the cush horse life turns into an ever increasing fear filled paranoid nightmare. What's a 65 year old horse in dog years? I think we missed the whole point. The sailor had it comin'. Were we all watching the same movie?
I still need to read the book but I'd say the trial wasn't about the murder as much as it was about defending the murderer... (If you haven't noticed, I'm all about taking wild stabs in the dark then following the blood splatter on the floor)
What about repetition? Very beginning the young guy is standing far away all alone without a partner then they get set up. Later the woman looks across the room and sees the sailor all alone and they become partners. The young guy laying on her back almost asleep talking about brain tumors right after they raced together, then the old sailor laying on her back during the race but with a weird look back from her at him as he lays on her back. Different perspectives?
See, what did it for me was the SF Gate article back in April of this year. That gave me some context of real life events that took place. I then started using those real historical circumstances as a filter for what the movie might be saying. The ocean right outside the building sounds sort of like the Ferry Building in SF and the whole thing takes place in a building somewhat similar wouldn't you agree? I'd have to go back and watch again, but I think there was something about taking a boat near the beginning and I was confused when they never got on the boat. I thought they were going to be on a boat the whole time for some reason. They obviously never leave the building and I don't remember what was said that made me think that. I can keep going if there's not going to be another quiz on the movie... ;)
What do you think of this line from my book: "I sometimes wish I could be frozen forever in some type written Kerroauc manuscript, stumbling down a foggy, dim lit North Beach alley, chasing the piano melodies of Shearing’s ghost." I could probably tighten it up a bit. Sorry, getting way off subject. I'm just learning how much you love ghost stories. I'll try to keep my comments on topic unless there will be some free form forum for us to discuss whatever we want later.
here is the post on Italy that you told me some time ago. however it is true some objects really seem that with their silence and their stillness they are able to carry on the narration. do you have any more advice to give on this topic? I feel I have a bit of a problem with that.
Consider that the object is just the residue of a gesture. It becomes a memory cue that always brings that moment in time to mind. Among my friends some never discard anything because each object seems to be their only access to a memory. And I suspect that so-called hoarders are just people who've developed that method of externalizing their memories. Thus to give away an object is to lose a memory.
To use objects effectively in fiction, you must make a single object carry the memory of several plot points.
Man thank you so much for this post Chuck. This just made me come to a realization about what I need to do with an object that is a center point in my story. Thank God I’ve finally figured it out now. You have no idea how many narrative problems you’ve just helped me to bridge. I’ve been in this catatonic place where I couldn’t really edit any further because I couldn’t figure out what to do. I needed to figure it out in order to proceed (so many words and kinda confusing, but hopefully you know what I mean). I couldn’t move on because the risk would be that I would have to re-write even more. Do you ever have moments where something ‘clicks’ while you’re editing and you have to re-write plot events to fit your new idea? Have you ever changed an ending because you’ve come up with something even better? Not necessarily asking what story you changed or how you changed it.
Love this entry! About halfway through Cain’s “One Kick” at the moment and keep mulling over how nicely she places the Scrabble tiles including having it seem to influence the title character’s name. Loving how Cain’s work chugs along under the power of some great character (and pet names) that also work as objects and verbs. After reading and loving Walter Wager’s “Swap” earlier this year, it seems your co-teacher has become the updated model of his cool and punchy style with some serious intrigue and wordplay thrown in for good measure!
Thanks for sharing your "tomahawk" eye for detail.
(snare drum and cymbal, here)
Good one! Well you were talking about cymbal-ism. Anyway I'll shut up now (with the puns)...they hurt me (cringe) more than they hurt you! hahaha
Loved Episode 1 of the podcast btw. Good to "meet" another member of the "office case hall of fame" ;) We need to give you something to recognize all you have given us. The time and care (not to mention $) you put into those necklaces and gift boxes, and even the personal stories you share, really compel people to reciprocate not only to you, but also to pay it forward to other people.
As for remembering touch, I had a dentist's appointment not long after I met you in KC in '06 (and we hugged at the end). I got through the unpleasantness of the procedure by re-experiencing the sensation of your hand on my back. After the reading I counted my blessings, thinking "with those muscles of yours, you could have crushed me like a bug!" haha So you just never know how what goes through people's minds.
IF ever you want to start a "jokes/puns/word play" thread on here, I'm definitely up for it! It's kinda one of my hobbies on FB (and in real life).
I'll stop thanking you now, ;)
Karen
I now have to go back and rewatch the movie to figure out where that gun came from. And to reread your post quiz on the movie to find out the answers.
Thank you for your Pixie Project gift! It is gorgeous in every way. I’m going to hang the bookmark up and let everyone admire it.
Happy that it arrived safely. Cheers.
Hi Chuck, greetings from Italy from a writer who is your great reader and can confirm the great work of your Italian translator!
My best to Paolo. Ciao! I last saw him in Barolo in 2019, and hope he's safe and well.
Can you hammer more on “gestures > dialogue > thoughts” either here or in a future post? In the context of your other comments on minimalism, I understand you to be saying creating a visual makes the reader respond with their own thoughts, therefore a gesture makes a more meaningful/powerful story. You provide great object examples here, but does the maxim apply to physical expressions also, like a finger-snap or an arched eyebrow? A tomahawk > “I miss our passionate youth and have regrets,” but would you also say a slap > “hands off, cretin!” Hmmm, now that I write it out, I see that it’s true.
Yeah I would love some examples/thoughts on “gestures > dialogue > thoughts” too.
According to the science I've seen written up, if you can evoke a sympathetic physical reaction in the reader/viewer, you create a permanent memory in their body. Last week I talked to a friend whose only memory of 'Stir of Echoes' is the girl's fingernail breaking. The film 'The Ring' also uses the (repeatedly) broken fingernail to create a full-body moment of horror. So, yes, a strong physical moment creates memory.
But over the plot of a book you need a souvenir to recall that memory. Thus the kiss-shaped scars in 'Fight Club.' And you want a variety of methods for recalling history or plot points: Objects, choruses, scars, they all work, but you can't rely too heavily on any single one.
Great lesson here. Also shows how past generations were a lot more sentimental, attached more meaning to things than people do today. Try to imagine Megan Fox or Channing Tatum or whoever doing this sort of thing.
In the "Own Nothing" generation, I wonder how objects will fare. I'd wager that people will always be attached to objects because objects prompt memories or express an emotion. Or display status. Note all the jewelry advertising we see going into the holidays. "Express your love for her with a stacked three-stone infinity cocktail ring of chocolate diamonds..." Every year a new gimmick is foisted on people -- remember the push to wear "cocktail rings" on the right hand? -- because people (men) have limited ability to express love.
Even worse, men are "hard to buy for" so women are prodded to buy 'Stetson' cologne. We have objects because we have emotions to express and rituals that require exchanging objects. Flowers and candy are ideal because they don't become a burden. But a story needs an enduring object or scar or chorus to keep the back story present.
Tattoos!
Exactly. Any "badging device" will always be needed.
I NEEEEED MORE GREENER PASSTURES, I NEED IT NOWWWWWW! oh yeah, this is real good info too. Saving to my “Advice from Chuck” file on the desktop. I have a bracelet in my current WIP that I am attempting to do this morph thing with.
Nice. Remember in 'Citizen Kane' how the only things Charles Kane ever gave Susan Alexander were bracelets? Finally her arms were overloaded with flashing gem-studded bracelets. As objects they morphed from expression of love to demonstrations of bondage.
Hard to binge watch this one. With the serialized things I enjoy I just look forward to the morning each launches, and I'll even put off reading it so I'll savor it more.
It’s really good. I like to read once for pleasure, once for study, and once more for the heck of it. Nice digestible length and ends on a page turner. Diggin’ it for sure.
Great Post, thank you ❤️. I just finished the podcast today (a second series would be very much appreciated!) and I found it interesting that you mentioned writing stories in the form that songs are written. Is this something you plan on covering in a craft essay at some point? (I do remember your lessons on choruses from the cult/litreactor but this sounded more like you were talking about structure and it piqued my curiosity)
Yes, and thanks. I'll be tackling stories as songs. I came of age during the great "ballad era" in popular music. 'The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald' and 'The Night the Lights Went Out in Georgia' and 'Bad, Bad Leroy Brown' and 'The Gambler' and 'Angie Baby' and 'Ode to Billie Joe.' Give a listen https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZt5Q-u4crc
"It was the third of June, another sleepy, dusty delta day..." Every song on AM radio was a story. Combine that influence with punk, and voila -- that's my style.
Regarding they shoot horse starter pistol: you know I was convinced that Gloria took the gun from Rocky after she found that the competition was unwinnable because (it fitted with my idea of her breaking point) and I knew there was another rally after she sleeps with him, but I just rewatched those scenes and they don't show the 2nd rally being started with the gun! Which completely throws questions on how Rocky viewed Gloria's state of mind, because surely he noticed his gun was missing, right?
Consider every ring in every story. Remember the ring in 'Harold & Maude'? First Harold is making a mysterious thing. Then he presents it to Maude, and we see it's a ring. Then she reads the inscription aloud, thus reducing the gesture to language. Then she trumps the object and the language with a new gesture: She throws the ring into the ocean. Then she gives the big line to explain herself. In regard to the lost ring: "So I'll always know where it's at."
This sticks as a glorious moment because it builds as activity, gesture, object, summary language.
And don't overthink Gloria. Focus on the method of storytelling.
Thanks, lots to (not over) think about!
I wonder what the rumors would have been like at the time. You know, all the whispers about how "they shoot the horses" - the fear that maybe more horses were going to get shot. It all starts to unravel, and the cush horse life turns into an ever increasing fear filled paranoid nightmare. What's a 65 year old horse in dog years? I think we missed the whole point. The sailor had it comin'. Were we all watching the same movie?
I still need to read the book but I'd say the trial wasn't about the murder as much as it was about defending the murderer... (If you haven't noticed, I'm all about taking wild stabs in the dark then following the blood splatter on the floor)
What about repetition? Very beginning the young guy is standing far away all alone without a partner then they get set up. Later the woman looks across the room and sees the sailor all alone and they become partners. The young guy laying on her back almost asleep talking about brain tumors right after they raced together, then the old sailor laying on her back during the race but with a weird look back from her at him as he lays on her back. Different perspectives?
Yikes. You've buried me.
See, what did it for me was the SF Gate article back in April of this year. That gave me some context of real life events that took place. I then started using those real historical circumstances as a filter for what the movie might be saying. The ocean right outside the building sounds sort of like the Ferry Building in SF and the whole thing takes place in a building somewhat similar wouldn't you agree? I'd have to go back and watch again, but I think there was something about taking a boat near the beginning and I was confused when they never got on the boat. I thought they were going to be on a boat the whole time for some reason. They obviously never leave the building and I don't remember what was said that made me think that. I can keep going if there's not going to be another quiz on the movie... ;)
What do you think of this line from my book: "I sometimes wish I could be frozen forever in some type written Kerroauc manuscript, stumbling down a foggy, dim lit North Beach alley, chasing the piano melodies of Shearing’s ghost." I could probably tighten it up a bit. Sorry, getting way off subject. I'm just learning how much you love ghost stories. I'll try to keep my comments on topic unless there will be some free form forum for us to discuss whatever we want later.
here is the post on Italy that you told me some time ago. however it is true some objects really seem that with their silence and their stillness they are able to carry on the narration. do you have any more advice to give on this topic? I feel I have a bit of a problem with that.
Consider that the object is just the residue of a gesture. It becomes a memory cue that always brings that moment in time to mind. Among my friends some never discard anything because each object seems to be their only access to a memory. And I suspect that so-called hoarders are just people who've developed that method of externalizing their memories. Thus to give away an object is to lose a memory.
To use objects effectively in fiction, you must make a single object carry the memory of several plot points.
Ok, thank you for the answer Chuck!❤️
You have just given me an idea for a Halloween short story (to die for...)! I thank you!
You're welcome!
Man thank you so much for this post Chuck. This just made me come to a realization about what I need to do with an object that is a center point in my story. Thank God I’ve finally figured it out now. You have no idea how many narrative problems you’ve just helped me to bridge. I’ve been in this catatonic place where I couldn’t really edit any further because I couldn’t figure out what to do. I needed to figure it out in order to proceed (so many words and kinda confusing, but hopefully you know what I mean). I couldn’t move on because the risk would be that I would have to re-write even more. Do you ever have moments where something ‘clicks’ while you’re editing and you have to re-write plot events to fit your new idea? Have you ever changed an ending because you’ve come up with something even better? Not necessarily asking what story you changed or how you changed it.
Love this entry! About halfway through Cain’s “One Kick” at the moment and keep mulling over how nicely she places the Scrabble tiles including having it seem to influence the title character’s name. Loving how Cain’s work chugs along under the power of some great character (and pet names) that also work as objects and verbs. After reading and loving Walter Wager’s “Swap” earlier this year, it seems your co-teacher has become the updated model of his cool and punchy style with some serious intrigue and wordplay thrown in for good measure!
This post made me think of and want to rewatch The Red Violin.