After the first video conference workshop, I broke apart a story to do exactly this. Going intuitively for the first draft was good, but I would have been better served to break it down into bite sized chunks earlier on. May try your legal pad method for the first draft on the next one.
Chuck writes his first drafts on legal pads. (Chuck, please let me know if I'm wrong.) I believe its more of an outline than a first draft. Fills in the blanks when typing it up. I prefer to physically write with a pen. It slows me down and helps me make less mistakes. Also commits the story to memory better. Done several shorts this way, but the two big stories I've got were typed from the get go. However, I am not a planner at all. Never plotted anything. Always operate on intuition, so if I did this it would be more than an outline.
That's more or less it. I prefer cheapy spiral-bound notebooks from the Washougal Hardware Store. And I usually write the entire piece longhand, but in disjointed bits with little idea how they will fit in series. Once I keyboard each page of notes I can cut and paste them to see how each works adjacent to other bits. It's like a collage. Only then do I look to fill any holes, but even during the hole filling process I print the draft and write on it longhand.
This just makes me want to write more because it shows me how far my writing needs to go. Practice, practice, practice. Thank you for the lesson and the story Chuck. It was very enjoyable. Now I have an ocean or two to cross.
Yeah, if you ever need a break from row boating across this ocean with me just hitch your boat up to mine and we can take turns. I guess it could be a metaphor for workshops.
Hey Chuck, when you wrote ‘Haunted’, did you have in mind that you would thread together a series of a short stories together into an overarching narrative early on, like from the get-go practically, or inception, even, or was it further aways down the road? If it was further on down the road, how many short stories from the collection had you written before the idea of ‘Haunted’ started to come together?
At the time my friends joked that when they wanted to lose weight they hung around with me. I could spoil anyone's appetite. So 'Haunted' became an anti-food, anti-eating novel.
Ugh. I'd written a collection of short stories, but the published insisted on a novel so I cobbled together the context story. The faux poems were the last element I added. It felt too jarring to jump between the writer's retreat and the short stories. I needed a device to introduce each story teller, and I needed a third texture of storytelling. Thus the stories, the context, then the poems.
Also consider how Bradbury's 'The Martian Chronicles' was built from a bunch of stories he'd written for magazines, then wanted to package as a novel. No doubt he collaged them together, then looked for places where he needed a buffer story.
And Clive Barker’s ‘The Books of Blood’. In addition to the first and last stories from the collection, I thought the through-line that connects all the stories together in a larger context was really neat -- that all that was needed was that at lest one character die in a short story.
Interesting. ‘Haunted’ is one of my favourite -- if not favourite -- collections of short stories, so this behind the curtain peek at its construction is neat. Thanks.
If you don’t mind me asking, was cobbling together a larger context for the book something that irked you, or were you fine with it?
Also, I think I recall you mentioning in the past that ‘Make Something up’ is one of your books that you have a particular fondness for. Is that right? If so, I’m assuming it may be because of the variety of stories included in the collection and all that entails -- the wide net of ideas, style, etc.
Ah, but what a great context story, and fitting so well as a jagged reflection to the rise of reality tv, and the skewered extremes of (some) peoples desire for fame.
Also another great writing example of the power of three: stories, context and poems.
Even though I didn't put a label on it, this is my instinctual method. I think this is the best advice I could pass on to any creator. I'll tell 'em I got it from the guy who killed Meatloaf. No, wait, scratch that. Too soon. I got it from Chuck.
Chuck, can you please elaborate a bit more on your thoughts about emulating German syntax and sentence structure in English prose ? I find that notion really interesting. Thank you.
An example, I'm fascinated by turns of phrase such as "You've done me proud" or "He did her wrong." This insertion of "do" seems related to German sentences such as "Es tut mir leid" which means "I'm sorry" but literally translates to "It does me pain."
Often when I hear a folksy phrase, the wording comes from a direct translation from German. For example, "Throw mama from the train a kiss." Thus by sticking the object or verb at the end, I can mimic German sentence structure but still be understood.
Likewise, I'm obsessed with Brit phrasing such as, "The man's a cheat, he is." Tagging the extra verb on the end underscores the sentence in a way similar to Daisy in "Gatsby" saying everything twice.
I hear the german seeping through the sentences like the mustard through the dudes fingers. Such wonderful grammar! Such logical construction! I was wondering, what made you go with "Unka" and not "Onkel"? As to the story, it reminded me of my theory that all of us are mentally ill in some way – die Geschichte war eine wunderbare Art, dies zu entblößen (The story was a wonderful way to expose this)!
I think I just like Unka because it sounded phonetically wrong. And it allowed me to signal that I was going to major pidgin English in the next beat. Growing up, my siblings and I couldn't say "Grandmother" so we called our mother's mother "Grammy." I love how people invent and personalize language.
Yes it does sound wrong. We said "Grammy" too, but in this case I would recommend the German. "Grandmother" is a mouthful and any self-respecting 2-year-old could say "Oma" [pronounced like it's spelled...]. Your commitment to the craft is an inspiration.
Hi Chuck, I was wondering if you could elaborate a bit more on the ‘comes together as if by magic.’
If I remember correctly fight club contains more than one chapter that was written as a stand-alone story. I was wondering how you come to the point that these stories could come together in one and the same novel. How do these stories connect most often? Is that on the theme, voice or character? Or something else?
Also, if I remember correctly, Diary was based on a short story that didnt became a chapter but expanded into a whole novel. What characteristics do you feel that a short story need to contain to have the potential to expand into a whole novel?
Likewise, 'Lullaby' was a long short story that I eventually broke into three chapters, then built into a novel. In many cases I experiment with voice and try to write key scenes: What the character does for work -- how the character lies to people to attain their love -- how a character meets their romantic partner -- and so forth. This allows me to experiment with choruses and transitional devices. I can create the rules for a character's vocabulary and body of knowledge.
By the time such stories are done, most of the book is written.
This is really insightful, thank you. This is probably very basic stuff for you and others, but its truly very helpful for me.
I hope its ok if I ask another follow-up question. What do you consider key scenes in a story-arc of a novel? You mentioned three but, for you, what are more and other key scenes?
Wow that was an awesome short story! Loved it. I'm gonna look for that issue of Playboy on ebay. "Hairy cello." Lol. The sentence structure thing was kinda addicting too. Very kewl piece. Pussy Benny.
After the first video conference workshop, I broke apart a story to do exactly this. Going intuitively for the first draft was good, but I would have been better served to break it down into bite sized chunks earlier on. May try your legal pad method for the first draft on the next one.
What’s the legal pad method?
Chuck writes his first drafts on legal pads. (Chuck, please let me know if I'm wrong.) I believe its more of an outline than a first draft. Fills in the blanks when typing it up. I prefer to physically write with a pen. It slows me down and helps me make less mistakes. Also commits the story to memory better. Done several shorts this way, but the two big stories I've got were typed from the get go. However, I am not a planner at all. Never plotted anything. Always operate on intuition, so if I did this it would be more than an outline.
Thanks! I’m afraid mine would look like a spider web of disorganized notes with a random post-it note thrown in for good measure.
Just sort it out when you type up the second draft.
That's more or less it. I prefer cheapy spiral-bound notebooks from the Washougal Hardware Store. And I usually write the entire piece longhand, but in disjointed bits with little idea how they will fit in series. Once I keyboard each page of notes I can cut and paste them to see how each works adjacent to other bits. It's like a collage. Only then do I look to fill any holes, but even during the hole filling process I print the draft and write on it longhand.
Thanks for clarifying! Spiral notebooks and ringed binders are the devil for southpaws. The world was not designed for us.
What's more, I pick through the cheap notebooks and take all the red ones.
I too have an affinity for red. Also, Red has been my generic protagonist name since I started writing songs as a kid.
Plus a really weird red synchronicity that happened while writing my first big story in a coffee shop in Arvada, CO.
Wait, there was a video conference workshop?
Without Chuck, but yes. Some of us got together on Discord. https://discord.gg/FNSQWjtKUf
This just makes me want to write more because it shows me how far my writing needs to go. Practice, practice, practice. Thank you for the lesson and the story Chuck. It was very enjoyable. Now I have an ocean or two to cross.
Yeah, if you ever need a break from row boating across this ocean with me just hitch your boat up to mine and we can take turns. I guess it could be a metaphor for workshops.
Hey Chuck, when you wrote ‘Haunted’, did you have in mind that you would thread together a series of a short stories together into an overarching narrative early on, like from the get-go practically, or inception, even, or was it further aways down the road? If it was further on down the road, how many short stories from the collection had you written before the idea of ‘Haunted’ started to come together?
Great question! I remember reading somewhere that all the stories are linked with the theme of food too 😁
At the time my friends joked that when they wanted to lose weight they hung around with me. I could spoil anyone's appetite. So 'Haunted' became an anti-food, anti-eating novel.
Ugh. I'd written a collection of short stories, but the published insisted on a novel so I cobbled together the context story. The faux poems were the last element I added. It felt too jarring to jump between the writer's retreat and the short stories. I needed a device to introduce each story teller, and I needed a third texture of storytelling. Thus the stories, the context, then the poems.
Also consider how Bradbury's 'The Martian Chronicles' was built from a bunch of stories he'd written for magazines, then wanted to package as a novel. No doubt he collaged them together, then looked for places where he needed a buffer story.
And Clive Barker’s ‘The Books of Blood’. In addition to the first and last stories from the collection, I thought the through-line that connects all the stories together in a larger context was really neat -- that all that was needed was that at lest one character die in a short story.
Interesting. ‘Haunted’ is one of my favourite -- if not favourite -- collections of short stories, so this behind the curtain peek at its construction is neat. Thanks.
If you don’t mind me asking, was cobbling together a larger context for the book something that irked you, or were you fine with it?
Also, I think I recall you mentioning in the past that ‘Make Something up’ is one of your books that you have a particular fondness for. Is that right? If so, I’m assuming it may be because of the variety of stories included in the collection and all that entails -- the wide net of ideas, style, etc.
Ah, but what a great context story, and fitting so well as a jagged reflection to the rise of reality tv, and the skewered extremes of (some) peoples desire for fame.
Also another great writing example of the power of three: stories, context and poems.
Even though I didn't put a label on it, this is my instinctual method. I think this is the best advice I could pass on to any creator. I'll tell 'em I got it from the guy who killed Meatloaf. No, wait, scratch that. Too soon. I got it from Chuck.
Love for you to plow me
Hey chuck how’s it hanging? Long?
Chuck, can you please elaborate a bit more on your thoughts about emulating German syntax and sentence structure in English prose ? I find that notion really interesting. Thank you.
An example, I'm fascinated by turns of phrase such as "You've done me proud" or "He did her wrong." This insertion of "do" seems related to German sentences such as "Es tut mir leid" which means "I'm sorry" but literally translates to "It does me pain."
Often when I hear a folksy phrase, the wording comes from a direct translation from German. For example, "Throw mama from the train a kiss." Thus by sticking the object or verb at the end, I can mimic German sentence structure but still be understood.
Likewise, I'm obsessed with Brit phrasing such as, "The man's a cheat, he is." Tagging the extra verb on the end underscores the sentence in a way similar to Daisy in "Gatsby" saying everything twice.
Brits reserve the right to speak like a retarded Yoda, we do.
I hear the german seeping through the sentences like the mustard through the dudes fingers. Such wonderful grammar! Such logical construction! I was wondering, what made you go with "Unka" and not "Onkel"? As to the story, it reminded me of my theory that all of us are mentally ill in some way – die Geschichte war eine wunderbare Art, dies zu entblößen (The story was a wonderful way to expose this)!
I think I just like Unka because it sounded phonetically wrong. And it allowed me to signal that I was going to major pidgin English in the next beat. Growing up, my siblings and I couldn't say "Grandmother" so we called our mother's mother "Grammy." I love how people invent and personalize language.
Yes it does sound wrong. We said "Grammy" too, but in this case I would recommend the German. "Grandmother" is a mouthful and any self-respecting 2-year-old could say "Oma" [pronounced like it's spelled...]. Your commitment to the craft is an inspiration.
Hi Chuck, I was wondering if you could elaborate a bit more on the ‘comes together as if by magic.’
If I remember correctly fight club contains more than one chapter that was written as a stand-alone story. I was wondering how you come to the point that these stories could come together in one and the same novel. How do these stories connect most often? Is that on the theme, voice or character? Or something else?
Also, if I remember correctly, Diary was based on a short story that didnt became a chapter but expanded into a whole novel. What characteristics do you feel that a short story need to contain to have the potential to expand into a whole novel?
Likewise, 'Lullaby' was a long short story that I eventually broke into three chapters, then built into a novel. In many cases I experiment with voice and try to write key scenes: What the character does for work -- how the character lies to people to attain their love -- how a character meets their romantic partner -- and so forth. This allows me to experiment with choruses and transitional devices. I can create the rules for a character's vocabulary and body of knowledge.
By the time such stories are done, most of the book is written.
This is really insightful, thank you. This is probably very basic stuff for you and others, but its truly very helpful for me.
I hope its ok if I ask another follow-up question. What do you consider key scenes in a story-arc of a novel? You mentioned three but, for you, what are more and other key scenes?
Wow that was an awesome short story! Loved it. I'm gonna look for that issue of Playboy on ebay. "Hairy cello." Lol. The sentence structure thing was kinda addicting too. Very kewl piece. Pussy Benny.