Did you ever do anything with that story about a guy working as a baggage handler who intentionally severed his finger but not all the way so he started to try and pull it off? The particular detail about him feeling the sensation of his nerves running taunt up his arm like guitar string (was it guitar?) was particularly cringe inducing/great.
And speaking of recommended reading, you’ve mentioned Will Self a few times recently in interviews. Are there any particular books of his that you’d recommend?
Hah! That "guy" is my husband. Big scar around that finger. He'd kill me if I wrote that into anything, so I just tell the story -- usually at dinner parties.
Regarding Will Self, I mostly know his short stories. You might check out "My Idea of Fun."
Such a strange time of my life, 1994. Mike had been working as a "ramper" loading luggage on planes in Seattle. He told me all the airline stuff that went into 'Fight Club' about vibrating baggage and all. Recently, on tour at the Austin airport (seven hour wait for a flight) I looked out at the team of young people piling bags into a British Airways 747, and thought "Hey, that used to be Mike's job."
Got to be similar in healthcare. Even if you think the suffering of others/animals doesn’t touch you cause you have a strong stomach it shows up in other ways. Snapping. Insomnia. Distancing. Etc. As for the horse I Imagine being human centipeded (not by mouth) to an incontinent elderly patient with dementia who can’t stop talking.
Did you notice the trend in Boston -- where you and I met in person? A big portion of that day's readers were doctors and nurses, whole teams of nurses. Many of them emergency room and psych ward people. Many also hospice professionals. They are tough, funny people.
I wonder if there’s a thesis/pHD to be written on the correlation between healthcare workers and enjoying/being desensitized to horror. Got to say, the book was so engaging, Chuck. I hope there are more in a series perhaps?
My son was in the hospital for a week after he was born. They sprung him on Halloween and as I was getting ready to take him home, people on the elevator were bringing up party decorations. I asked where the party was and they said the cancer ward. This was a children’s hospital. I always wonder how those doctors and nurses can do that job, how they can deal with losing kids like that. God bless them.
They sound cool..I like tough and funny people :).
My mother passed away in 2021, but her onc was a really cool person. He was very dedicated and so mild and pleasant in spite of the fact that he was slammed with work. I don't know how they do it, but I am glad they do..
I will definitely go back to him if I ever need to. Though I hope I won't need to (tests aside)...
We had to put down our 15 year old dog, Roland, in January of 2020. A lady named Marjorie who specializes in euthanasia house calls performed the procedure. I had to wonder how much pain that poor lady carries around, when every door that opens you’re greated by screwed up, tear-swollen faces.
Agreed. But it's got to be better than the last-minute choice at the vet's office. We hired a similar at-home tech, and it was infinitely better than the office experience.
Same. 53 weeks ago today we lost our little girl. There was no way we were going to let her go in a place she wasn’t familiar with (other than the numerous trips to the clinic the last week) and only knew it as a place of fear. We took Reese home and had a great last weekend where all of her friends came over to say goodbye. We had a vet come to our house and we said good bye in the sun on top the hill in our front yard, where she loved to lay in the grass.
I know how traumatic this was for us as the owners, I cannot imagine the hopeless feelings of vets when things don’t work out for the best. As much as I love animals, I could not do that job. To me, it looks like a thankless job full of pain.
This is what I’d like to do if I ever have to make this choice. So far I’ve been lucky enough to have pets die naturally. I dread this time in my life. I have a pit mix turning 10 next month and it’s something that’s on my mind as he’s been developing cataracts.
Just sitting in a vet's waiting room for 10 minutes with all the scared/sad dogs leads me to the bottom of a whiskey bottle. Suicide among vets becomes a lot easier to understand on those days.
A vet in the Bay area once wrote to me that the breed of dog most abandoned at his clinic was chihuahuas. People get the over-the-phone estimate for treatment and never return to collect the animal. Thus this vet guy had five or six elderly chihuahuas at his home, all dumped at the clinic. What a saint!
For years I’ve had this nagging feeling that my dogs’ vet is depressed. His affect has changed so much over the years - classic middle life, perhaps. But at one point, he used to wear a wedding band...used to talk about his young child. In my mind, he’s been punching a clock, paying alimony, and trapped in a job that once was a passion. Or my imagination could just be on overdrive (as usual)...
Giving a sh!t is hard. Sometimes I wonder what it would be like to be an alpha-type, narcy psychopath. Is it its own special hell? Do some love their pets? Or is it liberating in some ways not to traditionally be attached? No insensitivity meant toward personality disorders or mental health struggles in general here, lord knows the battle is real, but yeah. Am I the only one? Lol
Hmm, that's akin to the myth that people with metal health conditions are creative; that there is both correlation and causation.(Or all musicians die at 27, when really there's been only about six of those.) I'll conceed there are probably six empathetic writers in the world.
All the mental gymnastics of narcissism is to distract from their self loathing and fragility. Its not better. We get to connect with other people in real ways.
That’s what I’ve heard/read, too, but psychopathy ... different beast. I really don’t know either way. It’s individual, anyway. Wasn’t trying to paint with a broad brush. But, yeah, you get me. 🙂
True. Living life is hard no matter what flavor of crazy we get dished out, or what situation we are born into. But being psychotic does sound easier. Total disregard.
Im in the middle of writing a covert aka vulnerable narcissist character. Coming up with the subversive mental gymnastics is a lot of fun. Its a great exercise for being understanding of them, but also spotting them and staying far far away. Betcha cant guess why. Ha.
I learned what it is the hard way a couple years ago, then that opened up hundreds of questions related to my past. I'm still sorting through this with the story, and doubt it will ever really be sorted.
Yeah. That’s tough. I feel for you. I tend to attract people with no boundaries, or people who like to violate other people’s boundaries, sooo ... I get it. Lol
Makes me think of Kevin Dutton's book Wisdom of Psychopaths. He is a psychologist and they talked about how they could run brain waves through people's amygdala so they could feel what it was like to be sociopath for a short period of time in that one.
I was a biology major because I wanted to be a veterinarian, so I worked as an assistant at an emergency vet. We saw so many cases that didn’t have to happen, like dogs getting hit by cars (HBCs) even though the law here in Chicago is that they must be leashed unless in a dog park. It was so depressing I had to quit. Then I became an English major.
Its why I work in IT. I have a psych undergrad and grad degree and was a head social worker. My clients were always in crisis or had unexpected health issues like strokes and heart attacks. It was hard to not take that stuff home with you when you have worked with folks for a year+. Ended up feeling burnt out and changed careers to IT. Can't imagine what vets, surgeons, ER folks, etc have to deal with.
Though an ill-fated(for the DEA etc anyway) DEA sting could operate the same way..
Stochastic parrots inside my head at any rate combining internet memes and news stories at the very least..
I think targeting nonviolent people interested in medicinal plants for their actual medicinal uses (and who practice harm reduction) is a risky strategy for the rabidly anti-drug. There has been a sea change in societal attitudes on these things and with good reason:
When I mention the suicide rate amongst veterinarians, people initially seem surprised before settling on a sense of understanding.
Why do you suppose there is such an inclination for readers to share their harrowing tales with authors? I could speculate on reasons - but I am curious about your insight.
David Sedaris told me that once a writer has communicated something to the reader, then the reader must complete the cycle by communicating something in return. His advice was just to sit quiet and allow that to happen.
Carrie Fisher told me to "touch them in a significant way" meaning around the neck or face. She said no one would recall what was said, but their body would recall the touch. That's why -- when time allows -- I do the choking v. fighting gimmick for photos. To allow for the physical contact.
You and me both. Watching her greet a bah-zillion people at ComicCons, I have to wonder if the empathy thing didn't put a nail in her coffin. She really seemed to give a shit.
With any sort of care giving profession you need to be able to distance yourself from the situation at hand. I've always felt any caregiving job works best if you are able to compartmentalize the current situation and work towards a positive patient outcome if possible. The person that your giving medical care too could be a child, a pet, a drink driver that just killed a family of four. I'm not going to be able to do my best work if I'm taking on the emotional burden of everyone affected by the patients outcome, good or bad. At some point that care giver needs to process the situation in a healthy way. Lack of sleep, self medicating, and a variety of other unhealthy coping mechanisms aren't going to result in anything but a poor outcome.at best. I saw a lot of wild things working in healthcare for 25 years. Emotional intelligence and being able know your limits are good tools for anyone in the service of other people. Currently society seems largely focused on pharmacuticals or distraction from the human experience. I say make life your bitch and enjoy the ride since you only get to experience it once.
You know.... Not to play the devils advocate, but that image is... back in the wayback day if you got caught in storm and were in danger of hypothermia you did kill your horse and crawl into it. If you were to be dying from dehydration you would let the horses blood a quarter cup at a time. It was such a harrowing thing because often times an outdoorsman's primary relationship would be with a horse. It used to be one of my reoccurring nightmares. I couldn't shake how it was usually described as sort of gruesome primal rebirth and to awaken immense gratitude to the horse. It's definitely an image I have filed in would love to find a place in fiction for this that does it justice.
It's been bothering me all day. This image. Where is it? Why.. Jack London's definitely there but he's not alone. Those books from so long ago are so fuzzy. I think may be a convolution of reading Black Obelisk back to back with All Quiet on the Western Front and that one scene in both books done 2 ways - not sure though. Maybe it's the Mosaix effect. Would need to reread. But there is also right at the peripheral an obscure library book ripping off another book with a shifty 90s cover that was about a stable boy who steals his Sultans prized horse which was to be part of a dowry, ends up lost and dying of dehydration in the desert and trying to survive. He bleeds the horse, eats bugs, is pursued, almost dies himself and finally when a sandstorm hits he has no choice but to kill the horse and take refuge while coming to terms with the fact he has killed the creature he has loved and dedicated his life to. In the morning he crawls out of the dead horse and although he has lost everything in the world he has become a man and has everything he needs to survive. It was haunting. Less fuzzy now. But who knows maybe I am conflating London. It's a powerful image. Thank you for the reading, I'll take a look. I like the idea of utilizing the beloved animal companion of loyalty and love as sort of a vehicle for articulating the brutality of a characters journey. Personally I used to fantasize that the stable boy had died instead. Definitely wouldn't have cried as much.
Wasn't aware that vets had a high suicide rating. But I read somewhere that dentists have a high suicide rate too. And also physicians. Seems like any job where you take on people's pain makes you want to end it. That's crazy. And I think you said it's one reason why writers turn to booze.
Enjoyed your recent Dead Headspace interview. You had me going towards then end when you mentioned how brutal you are with workshop students. I need more juicy details of your writerly torture methods. Thank you sir, may I have another?
In journalism we were told that reporters had the highest rate of alcoholism because they're always meeting people at either the best or worst times. And that dentists are second highest because they're always forced to inflict some pain.
As for workshop, I've sat through so many decades of "This is really good, I liked it a lot" comments, that my default is to be John Houseman from "The Paper Chase." That way praise is earned and valid.
My students have the third highest rate of suicide.
Both Paper Chase and Whiplash sound interesting. One can hope to at least vicariously get infected with sort of work ethic (even if it is from histrionics on screen) and get energized out of the sluggish stupor modern life induces...
Hey Chuck, I just had a random storytelling question. Have you ever seen the movie The Fly? Do you remember the scene where Seth is drinking and talking to that baboon? There's a moment where we see the baboon swatting a fly away. Then Seth goes into the pod himself. The camera pans to a small window where we see the fly.
I just thought to myself, wouldn't it be interesting to NOT show the fly in the window but instead sorta mislead the viewer into believing that it worked successfully until he shows signs of deterioration. That way the viewer gets to think...shit, what happened?
I'm trying to use your concept of allowing the epiphany to occur with the reader before stating it outright. This is my (shoddy) attempt haha
Are you talking about the old Gena Davis film? "Be very afraid," was the tagline. I've never seen it, but in this case the audience would know the premise from the 50s version so there's no point in withholding information. Everyone who sees "Rosemary's Baby" knows the twist, but they still watch. Perhaps we're watching "The Fly" to see the retelling that confirms what we know.
Nonetheless, note how gesture (the swatting away) directs our gaze to the new object (the fly). So much more effective than just an insert shot that shows us a fly. Whatever the case, the storyteller would still need to add flashback to explain the fly to the slower members of the audience (me).
Dated a radiology expert in an equine surgery center briefly, and she had an insane workload. Always on call. Informed me about the high suicide rate, and of course, I shared the sewn up in a dead horse story. The US needs more rites of passage. Lets all meet in a park and eat far too much psilocybin mushrooms.
Did you ever do anything with that story about a guy working as a baggage handler who intentionally severed his finger but not all the way so he started to try and pull it off? The particular detail about him feeling the sensation of his nerves running taunt up his arm like guitar string (was it guitar?) was particularly cringe inducing/great.
And speaking of recommended reading, you’ve mentioned Will Self a few times recently in interviews. Are there any particular books of his that you’d recommend?
Hah! That "guy" is my husband. Big scar around that finger. He'd kill me if I wrote that into anything, so I just tell the story -- usually at dinner parties.
Regarding Will Self, I mostly know his short stories. You might check out "My Idea of Fun."
Dude, I had no idea!
You’ve just gone and given that story a happy ending -- you went put a wedding ring on that scared finger.
And thanks for the Self recommendation. I’ll add it to the reading list and hope it lives up to the title.
Such a strange time of my life, 1994. Mike had been working as a "ramper" loading luggage on planes in Seattle. He told me all the airline stuff that went into 'Fight Club' about vibrating baggage and all. Recently, on tour at the Austin airport (seven hour wait for a flight) I looked out at the team of young people piling bags into a British Airways 747, and thought "Hey, that used to be Mike's job."
A tiny ring made to fit an exposed nerve.
Is that story something I can listen to anywhere? Or did you hear that in person?
The story starts at 1:24:50 -- https://youtu.be/BDnDbFDdOW0?feature=shared
Thank u
Now that I see the video, I remember it. Been a long time since I watched and listened to this!
My motto is always "I've been through worse"...but maybe I should add "but I've never been sewn in a dead horse"
Got to be similar in healthcare. Even if you think the suffering of others/animals doesn’t touch you cause you have a strong stomach it shows up in other ways. Snapping. Insomnia. Distancing. Etc. As for the horse I Imagine being human centipeded (not by mouth) to an incontinent elderly patient with dementia who can’t stop talking.
Did you notice the trend in Boston -- where you and I met in person? A big portion of that day's readers were doctors and nurses, whole teams of nurses. Many of them emergency room and psych ward people. Many also hospice professionals. They are tough, funny people.
I wonder if there’s a thesis/pHD to be written on the correlation between healthcare workers and enjoying/being desensitized to horror. Got to say, the book was so engaging, Chuck. I hope there are more in a series perhaps?
(Also I want to know what happens to Maddison!)
My son was in the hospital for a week after he was born. They sprung him on Halloween and as I was getting ready to take him home, people on the elevator were bringing up party decorations. I asked where the party was and they said the cancer ward. This was a children’s hospital. I always wonder how those doctors and nurses can do that job, how they can deal with losing kids like that. God bless them.
Hah! I'd dreamed of writing a book called "Kangaroo Heaven" but that's got to wait. Thanks!
They sound cool..I like tough and funny people :).
My mother passed away in 2021, but her onc was a really cool person. He was very dedicated and so mild and pleasant in spite of the fact that he was slammed with work. I don't know how they do it, but I am glad they do..
I will definitely go back to him if I ever need to. Though I hope I won't need to (tests aside)...
Probably not an easy life for cybersecurity workers either.
Yet…..😂😂😂
We had to put down our 15 year old dog, Roland, in January of 2020. A lady named Marjorie who specializes in euthanasia house calls performed the procedure. I had to wonder how much pain that poor lady carries around, when every door that opens you’re greated by screwed up, tear-swollen faces.
Agreed. But it's got to be better than the last-minute choice at the vet's office. We hired a similar at-home tech, and it was infinitely better than the office experience.
Same. 53 weeks ago today we lost our little girl. There was no way we were going to let her go in a place she wasn’t familiar with (other than the numerous trips to the clinic the last week) and only knew it as a place of fear. We took Reese home and had a great last weekend where all of her friends came over to say goodbye. We had a vet come to our house and we said good bye in the sun on top the hill in our front yard, where she loved to lay in the grass.
I know how traumatic this was for us as the owners, I cannot imagine the hopeless feelings of vets when things don’t work out for the best. As much as I love animals, I could not do that job. To me, it looks like a thankless job full of pain.
Oh, definitely. I hate to think of having to do it again, but I’ll call Marjorie when I do. If she’s still available.
I want Marjorie when it's my time. A sunny hill.
Right?! Either that, or something so fast and fiery you barely have time to say, “Ah, fu-“
This is what I’d like to do if I ever have to make this choice. So far I’ve been lucky enough to have pets die naturally. I dread this time in my life. I have a pit mix turning 10 next month and it’s something that’s on my mind as he’s been developing cataracts.
I hope that she knows that she is making the process easier for the pet and the parents, and she does exactly that, and it gets her through.
Just sitting in a vet's waiting room for 10 minutes with all the scared/sad dogs leads me to the bottom of a whiskey bottle. Suicide among vets becomes a lot easier to understand on those days.
A vet in the Bay area once wrote to me that the breed of dog most abandoned at his clinic was chihuahuas. People get the over-the-phone estimate for treatment and never return to collect the animal. Thus this vet guy had five or six elderly chihuahuas at his home, all dumped at the clinic. What a saint!
Not the ending to the anecdote I thought was gonna happen but the one I’m glad did.
That vet's a better person than me. No way I'm taking a chihuahua in.
The only thing worse than a Chihuahua is a Pomchi........
For years I’ve had this nagging feeling that my dogs’ vet is depressed. His affect has changed so much over the years - classic middle life, perhaps. But at one point, he used to wear a wedding band...used to talk about his young child. In my mind, he’s been punching a clock, paying alimony, and trapped in a job that once was a passion. Or my imagination could just be on overdrive (as usual)...
Agreed. I've made a point of sending our vet flowers.
I’m bringing something home baked the very next visit!
Heart-breaking reality; being a healer is so hard.
Giving a sh!t is hard. Sometimes I wonder what it would be like to be an alpha-type, narcy psychopath. Is it its own special hell? Do some love their pets? Or is it liberating in some ways not to traditionally be attached? No insensitivity meant toward personality disorders or mental health struggles in general here, lord knows the battle is real, but yeah. Am I the only one? Lol
You are not. Monica Drake once proposed that writers are especially empathetic, and that they need writing as way to cope with the overall shit.
So that’s what’s wrong with me!
Yes. Agree. Coping and catharsis. Necessities for the boundaryless mind.
Hmm, that's akin to the myth that people with metal health conditions are creative; that there is both correlation and causation.(Or all musicians die at 27, when really there's been only about six of those.) I'll conceed there are probably six empathetic writers in the world.
Naw. Not at all. Some writers are, some aren’t. Just a statement. Nothing’s black and white. We know that.
And why we have to be careful with social activity. It makes us very engaging, but exhausts with the quickness.
All the mental gymnastics of narcissism is to distract from their self loathing and fragility. Its not better. We get to connect with other people in real ways.
That’s what I’ve heard/read, too, but psychopathy ... different beast. I really don’t know either way. It’s individual, anyway. Wasn’t trying to paint with a broad brush. But, yeah, you get me. 🙂
True. Living life is hard no matter what flavor of crazy we get dished out, or what situation we are born into. But being psychotic does sound easier. Total disregard.
Im in the middle of writing a covert aka vulnerable narcissist character. Coming up with the subversive mental gymnastics is a lot of fun. Its a great exercise for being understanding of them, but also spotting them and staying far far away. Betcha cant guess why. Ha.
Lol I’ve actually read quite a bit on covert narcissism! Sounds interesting!
I learned what it is the hard way a couple years ago, then that opened up hundreds of questions related to my past. I'm still sorting through this with the story, and doubt it will ever really be sorted.
Yeah. That’s tough. I feel for you. I tend to attract people with no boundaries, or people who like to violate other people’s boundaries, sooo ... I get it. Lol
Makes me think of Kevin Dutton's book Wisdom of Psychopaths. He is a psychologist and they talked about how they could run brain waves through people's amygdala so they could feel what it was like to be sociopath for a short period of time in that one.
Fascinating!
I loved translating this part of the book, Chuck! I even had a dream about it the other day haha
For those who haven't read/heard this story, it's in Consider This! (page 135/Crowd Seeding)
Cris! We missed you at workshop last week.
I messed up my schedule, but I'll be there this week! ;)
Bring pages.
I was a biology major because I wanted to be a veterinarian, so I worked as an assistant at an emergency vet. We saw so many cases that didn’t have to happen, like dogs getting hit by cars (HBCs) even though the law here in Chicago is that they must be leashed unless in a dog park. It was so depressing I had to quit. Then I became an English major.
Its why I work in IT. I have a psych undergrad and grad degree and was a head social worker. My clients were always in crisis or had unexpected health issues like strokes and heart attacks. It was hard to not take that stuff home with you when you have worked with folks for a year+. Ended up feeling burnt out and changed careers to IT. Can't imagine what vets, surgeons, ER folks, etc have to deal with.
What with the Ice Planet Hoth and Paper Chases, this is what Paper Chase reminds me of:
https://www.law.georgetown.edu/immigration-law-journal/in-print/volume-34-number-3-spring-2020/operation-paper-chase-ice-sting-operations-and-the-case-against-the-university-of-farmington-arguing-the-entrapment-estoppel-and-outrageous-government-conduct-defenses-in-immigration-court-and-be/
Though an ill-fated(for the DEA etc anyway) DEA sting could operate the same way..
Stochastic parrots inside my head at any rate combining internet memes and news stories at the very least..
I think targeting nonviolent people interested in medicinal plants for their actual medicinal uses (and who practice harm reduction) is a risky strategy for the rabidly anti-drug. There has been a sea change in societal attitudes on these things and with good reason:
https://www.military.com/daily-news/2023/10/05/va-leaning-molly-mushrooms-psychedelics-show-promise-treating-post-traumatic-stress-disorder.html
Even Elon Musk and Peter Thiel are investing in psychedelics (no doubt with the obligatory stale memes etc. in train but still..)
When I mention the suicide rate amongst veterinarians, people initially seem surprised before settling on a sense of understanding.
Why do you suppose there is such an inclination for readers to share their harrowing tales with authors? I could speculate on reasons - but I am curious about your insight.
David Sedaris told me that once a writer has communicated something to the reader, then the reader must complete the cycle by communicating something in return. His advice was just to sit quiet and allow that to happen.
Carrie Fisher told me to "touch them in a significant way" meaning around the neck or face. She said no one would recall what was said, but their body would recall the touch. That's why -- when time allows -- I do the choking v. fighting gimmick for photos. To allow for the physical contact.
The body remembers. I like it. And closure in the circle of communication.
I miss Carrie Fisher.
You and me both. Watching her greet a bah-zillion people at ComicCons, I have to wonder if the empathy thing didn't put a nail in her coffin. She really seemed to give a shit.
With any sort of care giving profession you need to be able to distance yourself from the situation at hand. I've always felt any caregiving job works best if you are able to compartmentalize the current situation and work towards a positive patient outcome if possible. The person that your giving medical care too could be a child, a pet, a drink driver that just killed a family of four. I'm not going to be able to do my best work if I'm taking on the emotional burden of everyone affected by the patients outcome, good or bad. At some point that care giver needs to process the situation in a healthy way. Lack of sleep, self medicating, and a variety of other unhealthy coping mechanisms aren't going to result in anything but a poor outcome.at best. I saw a lot of wild things working in healthcare for 25 years. Emotional intelligence and being able know your limits are good tools for anyone in the service of other people. Currently society seems largely focused on pharmacuticals or distraction from the human experience. I say make life your bitch and enjoy the ride since you only get to experience it once.
You know.... Not to play the devils advocate, but that image is... back in the wayback day if you got caught in storm and were in danger of hypothermia you did kill your horse and crawl into it. If you were to be dying from dehydration you would let the horses blood a quarter cup at a time. It was such a harrowing thing because often times an outdoorsman's primary relationship would be with a horse. It used to be one of my reoccurring nightmares. I couldn't shake how it was usually described as sort of gruesome primal rebirth and to awaken immense gratitude to the horse. It's definitely an image I have filed in would love to find a place in fiction for this that does it justice.
Jack London. Then the dog ran away. Smart dog.
To Build a Fire. I like that story
It's been bothering me all day. This image. Where is it? Why.. Jack London's definitely there but he's not alone. Those books from so long ago are so fuzzy. I think may be a convolution of reading Black Obelisk back to back with All Quiet on the Western Front and that one scene in both books done 2 ways - not sure though. Maybe it's the Mosaix effect. Would need to reread. But there is also right at the peripheral an obscure library book ripping off another book with a shifty 90s cover that was about a stable boy who steals his Sultans prized horse which was to be part of a dowry, ends up lost and dying of dehydration in the desert and trying to survive. He bleeds the horse, eats bugs, is pursued, almost dies himself and finally when a sandstorm hits he has no choice but to kill the horse and take refuge while coming to terms with the fact he has killed the creature he has loved and dedicated his life to. In the morning he crawls out of the dead horse and although he has lost everything in the world he has become a man and has everything he needs to survive. It was haunting. Less fuzzy now. But who knows maybe I am conflating London. It's a powerful image. Thank you for the reading, I'll take a look. I like the idea of utilizing the beloved animal companion of loyalty and love as sort of a vehicle for articulating the brutality of a characters journey. Personally I used to fantasize that the stable boy had died instead. Definitely wouldn't have cried as much.
Your Dead Headspace show was so good today, Mr Palahniuk! I'm so glad our writing scares you sometimes.
You're especially disturbing, Cheap.
Not me though, I'm good Christian boy lol
Me too!! We're good boys and girls.
And I'm only disturbing to the people I want to impress. I don't even really talk in real life unless someone is paying me or I really like them.
Thank you!
Relatable
Hey Tasha!
Hey Candice! I found you lol
Ha you did! Tag! You're it! lol
Me too. You can't be a great writer unless your writing can scare you at times lol
Wasn't aware that vets had a high suicide rating. But I read somewhere that dentists have a high suicide rate too. And also physicians. Seems like any job where you take on people's pain makes you want to end it. That's crazy. And I think you said it's one reason why writers turn to booze.
Enjoyed your recent Dead Headspace interview. You had me going towards then end when you mentioned how brutal you are with workshop students. I need more juicy details of your writerly torture methods. Thank you sir, may I have another?
In journalism we were told that reporters had the highest rate of alcoholism because they're always meeting people at either the best or worst times. And that dentists are second highest because they're always forced to inflict some pain.
As for workshop, I've sat through so many decades of "This is really good, I liked it a lot" comments, that my default is to be John Houseman from "The Paper Chase." That way praise is earned and valid.
My students have the third highest rate of suicide.
Oh! I haven't seen Paper Chase yet. But I have seen Whiplash. Fletcher, played by JK Simmons, was brutal as that jazz band teacher. Holy shit.
Both Paper Chase and Whiplash sound interesting. One can hope to at least vicariously get infected with sort of work ethic (even if it is from histrionics on screen) and get energized out of the sluggish stupor modern life induces...
Hey Chuck, I just had a random storytelling question. Have you ever seen the movie The Fly? Do you remember the scene where Seth is drinking and talking to that baboon? There's a moment where we see the baboon swatting a fly away. Then Seth goes into the pod himself. The camera pans to a small window where we see the fly.
I just thought to myself, wouldn't it be interesting to NOT show the fly in the window but instead sorta mislead the viewer into believing that it worked successfully until he shows signs of deterioration. That way the viewer gets to think...shit, what happened?
I'm trying to use your concept of allowing the epiphany to occur with the reader before stating it outright. This is my (shoddy) attempt haha
Are you talking about the old Gena Davis film? "Be very afraid," was the tagline. I've never seen it, but in this case the audience would know the premise from the 50s version so there's no point in withholding information. Everyone who sees "Rosemary's Baby" knows the twist, but they still watch. Perhaps we're watching "The Fly" to see the retelling that confirms what we know.
Nonetheless, note how gesture (the swatting away) directs our gaze to the new object (the fly). So much more effective than just an insert shot that shows us a fly. Whatever the case, the storyteller would still need to add flashback to explain the fly to the slower members of the audience (me).
"Whatever you do, be careful no flies get into the chamber with you because your DNA will mix with that of the fly and that would be very bad."
Dated a radiology expert in an equine surgery center briefly, and she had an insane workload. Always on call. Informed me about the high suicide rate, and of course, I shared the sewn up in a dead horse story. The US needs more rites of passage. Lets all meet in a park and eat far too much psilocybin mushrooms.