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November 3, 2021
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Full disclosure. When I was talking to Kathryn Borel -- who wrote the Believer article, recently -- she and I discovered that we both used The Idea as our coping mechanism. It's such a relief when you find out you're not crazy, or at least that you're not alone in your craziness.

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You're not crazy ❤️

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"In an insane world, the sane man appears to be insane" - Spock, I think

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In regard to people who want to foist their idea on you and expect you to write their story... THAT reminds me of the cuckoo bird that lays its egg in the unsuspecting nest of a smaller bird. So parasitic.

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😆

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Maybe the most inspiring thing I've read on your Substack thus far. Thank you for this.

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Great story, and for one, I’m thankful you took the money. I can’t imagine my 20s without Fight Club. Also wanted say thanks for doing this. I’m loving the opportunity for insight into your history, process, etc.

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Full disclosure. Because the book seemed like such an unlikely success the publisher agreed to a "stepped royalty" meaning that as it sells in higher numbers my royalty as a percentage of the price goes up. Such deals are rare now. And in the long run I've made some real money beyond that $6000.

That said, if you take a small advance, ask for a stepped royalty.

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Furthering the reasons I adore your work.

(Side note)My husband presented Rogan and your conversation to me with a massive toothy grin, knowing I'd be insanely excited. Did not disappoint, felt like I was listening to a friend talk.👌🏻

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Full disclosure. One time I was supposed to have dinner with my agent and Carol Burnett. Yes, THE Carol Burnett. At the last minute my agent cancelled and I was tongue-tied as I stared across a table (at Patina in Los Angeles) at Carol Burnett. Joe Rogan is much more fun and less intimidating to talk to.

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A while ago I heard you talking about the sense of being protected when you are working, which I think I remember you tying into what you’ve mentioned above. It was really strange when I heard you say that because I’d already had this sort of feeling enveloping me; sort of like a warm blanket. Especially during the past year with the first draft I was writing. It’s very real. I’ve talked to some others I’m working with and not everyone has felt that sense while in their own work, but maybe it’s just a matter of recognizing it.

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Consider that maybe when someone works from an outline there's less of a free-flowing exploration and sense of surrender to the idea. My friends who write from outlines seldom feel this sense of grace as they write.

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Ohhh. Yes, that definitely could be the case. By the way, I came across this photo that someone posted yesterday. It’s not mine. I stole it. But, I can’t get over how perfect this bar sign is.

https://www.amazon.com/photos/shared/j2gJck2ZSrWJC9ityYHvaA._lPPFhsKPpz5J2VLdvaibu

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Dude, that's not a bar. That's my house.

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founding

Chuck, your work got me into reading/writing. You've played the role in helping me realize my "gift" as you and Lewis Hyde put it here. Your blog today hit me at a perfect moment exactly when I needed to hear it, not unlike how I first met you. I walked into The Booksmith on Haight Street, San Francisco back in 2016 because I'd been depressed that day with my job. I'd never been in that book store and I didn't even know Haight had a book store. But I saw it and went in. I browsed, trying to distract myself, when I noticed a line of people formed. As I asked someone at the front of the line who was signing, I saw you and thought.. these kind of things, they don't happen. But it did! So thank you for choking me out that day and signing my copy of Fight Club 2, but mostly thank you to the machine elves who run the universe and line all this up.

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Hah! in 2016 a friend who worked at Booksmith told me, "Our store has become nothing but a distribution point for millions of copies of 'Fifty Shades of Grey'." She said this as she was busting open cartons of that book.

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Have you read Hyde's 'The Gift'? That, and his book 'Trickster Makes the World' are incredible.

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Correction, 'Trickster Makes This World.'

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founding

No I haven't read them. I'll have to pick up my copies from Booksmith!

And the idea of everyone down Haight Street reading 'Fifty Shades of Grey' doesn't scream "summer of love" revival... maybe we all thought it was a book about the fog?

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My first advance was also kiss-off money ($6,500, in 2004), but at the time it felt like a fortune... and more importantly, a validation.

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Ditto. Doug Coupland once told me, "After the age of thirty you're not competing with other people. If you're still doing your art it's because you love to do it." By that point the money is a distant priority.

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I recently had a short piece accepted by a literary journal. Pay: $0. But it's something I had on the backburner for years and just wanted to see the light of day. Validation.

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founding

Nick, where can I read the story?

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Thanks for your interest, Blake. I'm just waiting to hear back on whether it'll be in their print issue or online. I'll let you know shortly.

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Let me know too, please!

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Thanks Dan, I'll post right here when it's available.

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Blake see below please!

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"he is a witch" is what my fiance said when I feeblely tried to re tell your writing like after a stand-up.

.. the difference between "fuck you" money and fuck you money...

I think this is your best article yet and you tie in past talking points with a craft that you have clearly mastered. The pictures of your castle after the Joe Rogan episode.. everything you say has power and it makes me acknowledge that all of my thoughts have power. Thank you again.

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I thought I was the only one that felt this way! Great to hear I'm not.

I heard Iggy Pop once say "if someone has given you a dollar to play some music for them, boy you've had a great day". That stuck with me.

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Strange world stuff. In the 90s my editor, Gerry, was trying to sign Iggy Pop to write a memoir. They needed a ghost or co-writer, so Gerry asked me to fill that role. I felt too intimated and told them No. Even worse, before the film 'American Psycho' launched a national magazine offered to send me first class to London to write a profile on an actor named Christian Bale. I asked them, "Christian who?!" and declined. Stupid, stupid, stupid me.

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He had one in the early 80s that wasn't received too well, but he remains one of the few people I'd love to read a proper memoir of. Lyrically he's so underrated; people consider him as someone who did a couple of iconic songs, but there's so much depth to his work that goes ignored. He's a great storyteller too when he talks about his own life.

Maybe still time for that co-write?

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I’m zeroing in on footnote no.9 as there’s - and I know this might sound like a platitude - such a tranquil/soothing aspect to “cognitive pruning”. I can personally find it somewhat difficult to get around to writing but the. find myself immersed in it whenever I do. The idea of writing with no emotional/confidence/OCD/etc baggage is both extremely appealing and appeasing. Chuck, if you have anymore to say about/elaborate upon in regards to footnote no.9 , be it in a future post or whatever else, I’d love to see it.

P.S. I recently bought the first addition hardback of ‘Fight Club’ from 1996 that was mentioned at the start. (The one with the title embedded in the translucent bar of yellow soap.) It’s one of few books I own that’s actually older than I am.

P.P.S This isn’t related to the post but I thought I’d mention it. A radio series on the topic of offence in literature which I was interviewed for at my university aired recently. Of the three of us students that were interviewed, only some of what was said was used, and it was by me (ironic considering I messed up on the first take introducing myself and the fact that my voice sounds like a more monotone Darth Vader). I mentioned how I love the fact that Literature can push boundaries and be ‘offensive’ and then also mentioned some of my favourite authors who could be deemed as “problematic”. You were among the mentioned, and so I should probably say now that if by chance those listening to the BBC documentary had never heard of you but have now taken an interest: you’re welcome. Or, alternatively, if some “anti-fascist” book burners were tuning in to find some targets: my apologies.

I’ll stop the P.S.es here before this turns into a novella.

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A friend once chided me about "wasting my time" writing. And I told him that writing was like a vacation from being me. It still is, while also being a deeper dive into being me.

As for your P.S.s... I wish we could do footnotes to footnotes, here.

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I’d really like to try and take a vacation from myself without being neurotic about it in some way.1

Chuck, I’d like to ask you what you think of an idea of mine. The idea being that because there aren’t any writing work shops in my area, would creating a substack and posting short stories there so that people might read, react and critique them be a good idea? I’d like to see how people react to what I’m writing but unfortunately haven’t so far found a means to do so outside of close friends.

1. I unfortunately realise there’s both irony and cause for a vacation in said desire.

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Hello Brandan. My fear is that you'll present a great idea and some stranger will walk away with it. I've seen this happen a couple times, and there's almost no recourse. Consider that a better alternative might be to engage with a few known people in an on-line discourse so you'll have some accountability. There will be a "paper trail" to dissuade others from cribbing your ideas.

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November 4, 2021
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Agreed. It is a sort-of compliment. But for someone starting a career it's not cricket.

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November 4, 2021
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Gotcha. Thank you for your consideration and implying that I might be able to put forth a great idea.

On the topic of short stories, I think an issue that may arise with short fiction is the fact that if you write something that isn’t tailored to a specific genre, you’ve got something which you don’t really know what to do with. I guess a hypothetical pragmatic solution would be to compile them into a collection, but would that then also not be an issue as you don’t know which ones may or may not have some merit to them? That, and I’m admittedly not to sure what the stigma of publishing difficulties in regards to short story collections is currently.

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According to Mark McGurl's book 'The Program Era' -- a history and overview of academic writing programs in America -- short stories come into vogue ever twenty or so years. In theory universities use stories to teach writing and must update their syllabi every so often. Thus college demand drives a new cycle of short story collections.

Otherwise, actor friends tell me that audio companies are scouting short fiction -- stories and novellas -- like crazy. The popularity of shorter podcasts is driving an audio demand for shorter fiction. That said, the market for stories might be expanding quickly; besides, you never can tell when a story idea explodes to become a novel. You have to start somewhere. I will shut up now.

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Kindly never shut up.

I recall you mentioning that there’s a kind of literary “shake up” in short stories every two decades or so before. It’s an interesting prospect.

This might seem weird but, using your work as an example (I hope this isn’t impertinent), I can kind of split your catalogue of work into three areas/phases. The first area/phase is the first decade or so of your work: ‘Fight Club’ - ‘Haunted’. The second, the next decade or so, being: ‘Rant’ - ‘Make Something Up’. We’re currently in the third phase, starting with ‘Adjustment Day - present’. I bring this up because you’ll notice that each “phase” averages about 7-9 books and ends in a short story collection. One could maybe consider this a ‘micro-shake up’ of sorts, I.e. every decade or so you produce 7-9 books and then finish said decade with a short story collection. Or, and this probably the more likely answer, I’m extrapolating from coincidence and should probably see a shrink and get a check up from the neck up.

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Speaking of online workshops, Chuck, do you see yourself teaching one in the future? I was in your workshop over at Litreactor back in 2015 and it was a great experience.

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Thanks! I'm talking with a couple students, trawling for work I can present, praise and then use for teaching -- what works, what could work better. Richard Thomas at LitReactor has agreed to channel me work from writers. Once I've got a system I'll put out a call.

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This would be so good! I took your scavenger hunt class back in 2014 on litreactor and also minimalism with Chuck and Suzy in 2016. Such excellent lessons.

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Hi Brandan, have you ever read into flow state or alpha brainwaves? Tons of bio-hacking info on this, it seems like something you'd find interesting.

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The terms sound familiar but I haven’t read into them. But will do on your recommendation. Thanks, Nick.

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I came here to say that $6000 wasn't the only thing you received from that book deal. And as much as it _isn't_ about the money, the money helps provide concrete external validation of your work and while external validation isn't necessarily what you're looking for (or were looking for), it's awfully damn nice to have.

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I say, “Hell yeah” to THIS!!! 👆

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I heard you talking about all of this on the Tim Ferriss podcast. I must have listened to it three or four times already, it's one of my go-to listens when out on a run or just walking to work. As other people have already mentioned here in the comments, there's something especially inspiring about your story.

By the way, that interview you did with Ferriss is the most interesting I've heard from you; way more than the Rogan episodes. That Ferriss guy asks some great questions and is a much better listener than certain other interviewers. Anyone here who hasn't already listened to it, I highly recommend it.

Anyway, thanks Chuck, you're helping a lot of people with these posts and interviews. I totally get what you're saying about "the idea"; although there's no way I'd agree in front of my wife that the idea beats the new wife! Between me and you though...

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Forgive me for repeating myself, but I wanted to use this anecdote in service of a bigger message. The "idea as redemption or shield."

The last time I saw my father in person was at this brother-in-law's funeral. My father didn't know how to tie a necktie so I leaned close and tied his full-windsor knot. It was a sweet, physical moment, and my father would be dead in another year. I've written about that as well, but some moments need more processing and repetition before you can leave them behind. I am still tieing that necktie.

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Please don't apologise, there's a reason I've listened to that interview so many times and will continue to do so. I feel like I get something new from it every time.

Also, many people here won't have had the pleasure of hearing this particular anecdote yet.

The dad stuff is particularly emotive to me. Mine was a troubled man. Ended up throwing himself under a train, leaving a couple of voicemail messages to my mum and my sister, from the track as the train was hurtling towards him. I eventually made it easier to process by convincing myself that everyone, him included, was better off as a result of his choice. But now as I age, I come to think of him a lot more as just a flawed man, struggling with all the shit and ill-equipped with the emotional skills to handle this fucked up world.

You've made me think about him a lot more these past few days, as, not that long before he took himself out, he got the shit kicked out of him. His head was booted like a football (a soccer ball for you guys over your side of the pond). After that, now that I piece it all together, something changed. I mean, he was a fucking mess before that, but after that kicking he received at the feet of the local teenagers, something really changed. Shit got darker. The behaviour became way more fucked up and inexplicable. I can't stop thinking about it.

Not that it makes any difference now. But I think I understand better, thanks to listening to that chat with Rogan. I had thought about it before, but never with so much clarity.

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Fucking spooky. The head injury stuff. And it's important to keep some connection to your father's memory, because you'll begin to see yourself becoming him in some ways. If you can't love or accept your father, you'll always battle those aspects of yourself. That's why I wrote 'Rant,' because I had to embrace all the dad traits within myself.

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I already see it. I am basically him, but without the uncontrollable urge to put everyone down, say something negative about everything, never be happy for someone's success or even to see it as a success. Because of him, I've gone full circle, praise everyone. Tell my students "It's better than the last piece you handed in! You're getting there!" Even when they are definitely not getting there.

But yea, apart from that, I'm pretty much him.

To be fair, it's better than taking after my mother!

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Hah! You're doomed to be them both from time to time.

Just curious, did you save the voicemail from your father? I saved them from my dying mother for years, and I know people who've saved such voicemails for decades. Including voicemails left by loved ones who died in the World Trade Towers.

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Don't worry, my wife reminds me regularly that I am also my mother. I just deny it publicly!

I didn't keep the voicemail. Actually I was the one he didn't call, probably because he knew I was the only one who would still answer his calls. I imagine those messages got lost when my mum and sister upgraded to new phones.

The contents of the voicemail did get recorded in another way though: https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/5078624.southwick-father-tells-wife-the-train-is-coming-i-am-dead/

By the way, I recently finished reading The Pugilist at Rest. Wow! One of the best books I've ever read. I wasn't a huge fan of the stories in the final part of the book, but the preceding ones absolutely blew me away. Imagine being able to write like that (I say this to me, not to you!)

I'm onto his book Cold Snap now. I also started reading A Confederacy of Dunces last night. Loved that first chapter, been thinking about getting back into it all day at work.

So thank you for the recommendations, and please keep them coming.

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It's beautiful concept, this guardian. I'm pretty sure you've written about it before, as have others. But it always seems like something I remember I already knew. An inherent truth. Thanks for the midday inspiration! Guess I need to get a copy of The Guest. How is it that I keep reading, but the stacks keep growing? It feels like a slow-motion I Love Lucy bit.

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"The Gift"! Don't read a wrong book.

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Sorry, The Guest is the working title for what I'm writing. Got mixed up. Not my worst Freudian slip by far. Still seems like it needs a facepalm emoji.

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Thank you, Chuck. Your use of footnotes is always a lesson within the lesson.

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I just hate to go on a tangent within the main article. In a world where so many writers are paid by the word, prose get so flabby.

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Riveting read as always. Something about an artist doing it for the right reason just melts my heart. And temporarily restores my faith in humans.

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Thanks for this. This inspired me to write a few more lines for a story which I may or may never finish, but every little bit helps. Love your prose.

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