Those moments when people say the perfect thing, those are the opposite of scars. You can return to them and always feel pleasure. At lunch, my friend Ina once said, "Whenever I order coffee and a hamburger, I feel like a character on Perry Mason." She said that in 1988, and it still makes me smile.
I’m more about the first film. It’s been forever since I saw the BBC version. My wife was a big Hepburn freak so I’ve seen that one wayyyyy more times and am a little closer to it.
You wrote somewhere in Plot Spoiler to avoid lists in threes. Avoiding lists in threes is like a subliminal way to subvert expectations in style. I didn't realize how prevalent lists in threes were in stuff I read and some of my own stuff until you pointed it out and now threes haunt much of what I read and they bulge from the text like plague buboes.
Good! If you can shift to series of two or four, you'll keep the energy moving forward. Series of two always complete the energy and leave your sentence flat. Also, keep in mind the Joan Didion trick of of using 'and' between items in a series.
Instead of "Tom, Dick, and Harry" use "Tom and Dick and Harry." Thus Bob & Ted & Carol & Alice.
So for subverting expections in novels, would this just be almost a one time use to affect the tension? Because if used again it would damage the authority you have established with the reader. Or are their rare instances were a skilled writer has been able to utilize it several times to shock or surprise the reader?
Instantly put me in mind of the scene from both the book and movie where all of the bar patrons turn into massive, grotesque reptiles -- https://youtu.be/eekl1wwBsXM
Louisville's finest. Hunter bums me out because he was compelled to become the character he had created. Feel that he could have offered so much more if he ended that phase and progressed into something else.
Yeah. It’s unfortunate that he felt like he had to act like Raoul Duke, but I guess it kinda worked in a sense. He got a reputation and he himself became as popular -- if not more so -- than his books. Gonzo stuff, man.
I like LSD because its still possible to be social on it. Its fun, but it never gives me any sort of insight. Much prefer psilocybin, but only by myself in the woods on a clear night with no artificial light or sound. Lots of insight that way. Michael Pollan is doing god's work.
Horror to relief. I recall an experience when the outcome subverted my expecation, probably going to butcher it here but, just bear with me.
In retrospect, 'maybe' pure luck, police, couple of psychotropes and a little bag of hash. We were 5 guys, at a nice partying spot away from attention. I sat in front seat rolling a joint ( cause it was windy), the others were outside. but, all of a sudden police are in, all the drugs's in the car, no chance to throw everything away. And the way these cops jumped out of nowhere seem they knew we'd be here and waited to catch us while fully cooked and on the act. Anyway, as I was inside trying to act calm, the cops cornered each one, asked for their IDs, reported them to central station, they took more than ages with each one grilling them with questions. I knew my moment will come, and will not get away with it. My mom and dad will be eternally disappointed. Wait a minute! checking my pockets, I have no ID aswell.. That's it, got no chance, locked in trouble. One by one, probably an hour has passed, and when they've finished with other five, my turn's up. Surprisingly one of the cops just looked at me for a sec, then looked away, then they just got into the car and gone away. I couldn't believe it. Such relief. From excalating tension and hanging doom, to an unexpected result. I still can't figure out why they've left me out. Maybe I'm just lucky.
It's Sunday Dinner. We spend our lives hustling from one street corner to the next, week after week. No matter how bad life gets, Sunday Dinner at Momma's house reminds us people care.
Chuck, can you recommend a place online where common story expectations or tropes can be found? Or if anyone else in the group can recommend, that would be great. Thanks again for being a great teacher!
That's a tricky question, because often you can overuse a trope or cliche and make it work. The key is to do so boldy so the reader/editor/agent recognizes your intention.
I will never get tired of hearing your anecdotes, thanks for sharing 😁
His anecdotes are the main highlight for me as well. Always fantastic.
Thanks!
Those moments when people say the perfect thing, those are the opposite of scars. You can return to them and always feel pleasure. At lunch, my friend Ina once said, "Whenever I order coffee and a hamburger, I feel like a character on Perry Mason." She said that in 1988, and it still makes me smile.
I hope we can do the same. Never underestimate the the uplifting words of a short story about satanic dildos and urns.
thanks
I’ve been eating Delta 9 gummies for half a day and revisiting every Tennessee Williams film adaption I can find, and this really hit the spot
So which do you prefer the Kate Hepburn 'Suddenly, Last Summer' or the Maggie Smith version?
I’m more about the first film. It’s been forever since I saw the BBC version. My wife was a big Hepburn freak so I’ve seen that one wayyyyy more times and am a little closer to it.
Good stuff!
Subvert the Expectation
Derail the Expectation Train 😄🚂
You wrote somewhere in Plot Spoiler to avoid lists in threes. Avoiding lists in threes is like a subliminal way to subvert expectations in style. I didn't realize how prevalent lists in threes were in stuff I read and some of my own stuff until you pointed it out and now threes haunt much of what I read and they bulge from the text like plague buboes.
Ah but also three is the magic number in other writing techniques. Like the three stories in guts 😁 or having objects resurface three times.
I was born on the 3rd and have always noticed a lot of 3s. Plus its a nice, round number. Complete.
and your planet is the 3rd rock from the sun.
Good! If you can shift to series of two or four, you'll keep the energy moving forward. Series of two always complete the energy and leave your sentence flat. Also, keep in mind the Joan Didion trick of of using 'and' between items in a series.
Instead of "Tom, Dick, and Harry" use "Tom and Dick and Harry." Thus Bob & Ted & Carol & Alice.
I’d been wanting to ask you what psychedelics you’ve tried haha. Love this.
I can see that being your memoir; a collection of shorts beginning with that line. Hell, you could even title it "So This One Time in College..."
Also, thanks for dropping that helpful heads up that citric acid reactivates LSD! Good to know.
On another note:
Does anyone know when we'll be meeting for Story Night or Workshop this month or the next month? I'm trying to plan a trip to the Northwest.
The next story night at hindsight would be August 8th and the next workshop would be Aug 11th.
We meet for a Hindsight Story Night tomorrow and each two weeks after that. Workshop is each Thursday night for the time being.
So for subverting expections in novels, would this just be almost a one time use to affect the tension? Because if used again it would damage the authority you have established with the reader. Or are their rare instances were a skilled writer has been able to utilize it several times to shock or surprise the reader?
“Fear and Loathing in Portland”
Instantly put me in mind of the scene from both the book and movie where all of the bar patrons turn into massive, grotesque reptiles -- https://youtu.be/eekl1wwBsXM
Louisville's finest. Hunter bums me out because he was compelled to become the character he had created. Feel that he could have offered so much more if he ended that phase and progressed into something else.
Yeah. It’s unfortunate that he felt like he had to act like Raoul Duke, but I guess it kinda worked in a sense. He got a reputation and he himself became as popular -- if not more so -- than his books. Gonzo stuff, man.
"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, and insanity, but theyve always worked for me."
I like LSD because its still possible to be social on it. Its fun, but it never gives me any sort of insight. Much prefer psilocybin, but only by myself in the woods on a clear night with no artificial light or sound. Lots of insight that way. Michael Pollan is doing god's work.
Thanks for your tips!
Horror to relief. I recall an experience when the outcome subverted my expecation, probably going to butcher it here but, just bear with me.
In retrospect, 'maybe' pure luck, police, couple of psychotropes and a little bag of hash. We were 5 guys, at a nice partying spot away from attention. I sat in front seat rolling a joint ( cause it was windy), the others were outside. but, all of a sudden police are in, all the drugs's in the car, no chance to throw everything away. And the way these cops jumped out of nowhere seem they knew we'd be here and waited to catch us while fully cooked and on the act. Anyway, as I was inside trying to act calm, the cops cornered each one, asked for their IDs, reported them to central station, they took more than ages with each one grilling them with questions. I knew my moment will come, and will not get away with it. My mom and dad will be eternally disappointed. Wait a minute! checking my pockets, I have no ID aswell.. That's it, got no chance, locked in trouble. One by one, probably an hour has passed, and when they've finished with other five, my turn's up. Surprisingly one of the cops just looked at me for a sec, then looked away, then they just got into the car and gone away. I couldn't believe it. Such relief. From excalating tension and hanging doom, to an unexpected result. I still can't figure out why they've left me out. Maybe I'm just lucky.
It's Sunday Dinner. We spend our lives hustling from one street corner to the next, week after week. No matter how bad life gets, Sunday Dinner at Momma's house reminds us people care.
*Rinse, repeat.
Chuck, can you recommend a place online where common story expectations or tropes can be found? Or if anyone else in the group can recommend, that would be great. Thanks again for being a great teacher!
That's a tricky question, because often you can overuse a trope or cliche and make it work. The key is to do so boldy so the reader/editor/agent recognizes your intention.
I watched clouds breathe...