It took me five years to get a B.A. in Journalism. Then I had to work getting Miranda Priestly her Starbucks, searing hot, and fly her back from Miami in a hurricane. No, wait, that was a movie. Sorry, I ate lead and mercury for lunch today.
I was held back in grade 5. Opened my report card on the school bus full of kids waiting to see if I failed or passed. I still remember the horror of failure as they laughed. I still have nightmares that I need one last math credit to graduate. I sense Chuck is going to be my Freddy Krueger.
I remember years ago when you did an early reading of 'Choke' at KGB in NYC. It was late afternoon and the audience was a bit punchy, smudgy day-drunk and awash with that grubby, stained light that filtered past gummy windows. You had a couple of giggle fits while reading, were awash with people post, and then as it slowly died down you asked what the piece of paper I was holding was. I told you it was my Movies To See list, you immediately snatched it, and scrawled both this flick and 'The Haunting of Hill House' right at the bottom...
I carved out time and watched this film for the first time last night. Holy shit I wasn’t prepared for that. Resonants with me on so many levels. And I bet I’m not alone. Thanks for introducing me to this masterpiece. Can’t wait to hear you discuss this within the context of the class.
Thanks for watching it. The movie demonstrates so many storytelling devices, not the least of which is Big Voice vs. Little Voice. Little Voice (aka Recording Angel) is the camera's viewpoint. Big Voice is Gig Young's speech about assisting his faith healer father, and the nature of human belief systems. I could teach a semester on his film alone.
I'd never seen this. I can't stop thinking about it. The tension (which i have trouble with in my writing) was unbearable sometimes, I needed to get up and walk away from the screen! Thank you for introducing this to me. I'm looking for more like it.
I've had this on my watch list for awhile so thanks for the excuse to finally watch it. I love Dancer in the Dark and Breaking the Waves, there is just something so sickly beautiful about martyrdom but I'm having trouble constructing a character that the audience sees as a genuine martyr and not as naive or weak.
Wow. How did I not know about this movie before? Like a comment below, I wasn't prepared for that, thank you so much for this! There is so many great things in it, it's hard to process...
Thank you for the introduction to this film, Chuck (Mr. Palahniuk). I thought it was great and I'm interested in seeing what people have to say in response to the quiz questions, as there's a lot to dissect and discuss. I also gotta ask - although I might be extrapolating a lil our of left field here - did this film have any influence on your book "Haunted"? I thought, whilst watching the film, that, although the people and circumstances are quite different, a bunch of desperate, exhausted, anaemic looking characters stuck in a remote location with increasingly drastic rising tensions and dangerous/absurd scenario's culminating in a tragic ending seemed a little reminiscent of a certain collection of short stories that I quite enjoy.
Despite the title, I was still totally unprepared for how tragic this was, and also, how it's weirdly like a depression era Battle Royale. I did not expect some sadomasochistic spectacle from the slow burn start.
I love the idea of a faith healer playing second fiddle to the faith, like they're just there to point it out and the audience does all the work. That the audience is the one with all the power.
To me the film has always been a kind of "gothic" because of the claustrophobic setting, stifling and removed from the world. And the dwindling number of players, so much like "And Then There Were None" and "Session 9." And the building madness like in the Julie Harris version of "The Haunting."
I'd forgotten "Session 9" even existed, it's been years since I saw that! If I remember, it was pretty good.
Comparing the two, do you think that the setting helps or hinders the tension? Like, if it's already set somewhere dark and scary (like an insane asylum), does it give the audience a heads up? Like, 'be prepared, this is gonna get nasty'? I think that "They Shoot Horses" was maybe more tense because it was supposed to be portrayed as something fun (despite the opening scene). That the enjoyment of the dance-hall audience made the suffering of the contestants seem even worse because their joy seemed so jarring to the misery of the dancers.
I think I've only seen bits of the 1970's adaptation of "And Then There Were None", but it might be one to rewatch. There looks to be plenty of versions to choose from. Surely everyone like a good Agatha Christie film?
1. The clock/days/couples left scoreboard in the back is the perfect foil for the couples. As the time goes up and couples go down, there's that descent. The movie star loses her looks, the Sailor's uniform is no longer white, the redhead dancing with the Sailor hallucinates things crawling on her, and so on. Rocky the emcee is an antagonist but to me, the main villain is the scoreboard (and I'll explain why later).
2. There's a scene in the movie Midsommar where the people are dancing around the pole and eventually all collapse. This is as tense as that scene but nearly two hours long. It's macabre how people would go to watch what is basically sponsored torture. A prelude to current reality tv where people will go naked in the African desert for 21 days for a few hundred thousand dollars. This brilliant movie has now come to life in the form of Survivor, Alone, Naked and Afraid and Big Brother.
3. I went down the Wikipedia rabbit hole and saw Jane Fonda lost the Oscar to Maggie Smith in 1969. I need to see The Prime of Miss Jean Brodie because Jane Fonda was a BEAST in this. She embodied cynicism. "Got it rigged before you even show up" which I'm sure a lot of us can relate to nowadays.
4. I looked it up and $1,500 in 1932 is $29,952.59 now. Put more perspective on how awful the Depression was. To go through that torture for other's amusement for $30k and more perspective on our earnings now. Imagine doing that...dancing for 60+ days for $30k. F that, amiright?
5. The second derby was amazing. Yeah, Sailor died but the camera cuts from person to person to person? The upbeat music over the misery of the contestants? People in formal wear were cheering? It was the best scene in my opinion.
6. Gig Young's 'Rocky' character is sleazy just like Richard Dawson's in the Running Man. A total corrupt showman/promoter/torture pimp.
7. Hole. E. Shit. The brief flash-forwards built up to that? They were subtle, not overdone. You could guess any which ways on what was going to happen. I love love LOVE the way Sydney Pollack juxtaposed Jane Fonda falling in the field the way the horse did at the beginning.
8. In the end, there were 6 couples left after 62 days. This is why I think the scoreboard is the main villain. No matter how much you push and sacrifice and struggle; you're just a number to a businessman. The businessman (Rocky) is a corrupt piece of shit, yeah but there's always a business to run no matter what field of work (or economic event like the Great Depression) to keep score of us all.
9. After that, I need to watch something more lighthearted. I think the film version of Cormac McCarthy's "The Road" or "A Serbian Film" will cheer me up after that.
All excellent points, but for now I'll point out that the number of couples is the only real "clock" because the actual clock doesn't decide anything. Just as the "clock" in 'Rosemary's Baby' is the pregnancy.
And, yes, a snuff film would be cheerful after this.
Just past the hour mark the number of couples sat at twenty-five, twelve minutes later twenty-one, then twenty at four minutes after that. Six minutes later we get thirteen and a half with Gloria in the spotlight. That last half hour is almost all Fonda. We’ve been given almost everything but her last bit of tenacity. The next drop outs leave us less concerned with how many actually remain and more with where Gloria is going.
I had the elapsed hours written down as well. The numbers seem like a bit of a ruse considering how it turns out. Their sponsor’s product seemed more significant. Iron being a slang term for firearm and Tonic being the “cure.” Clever.
I totally get the running man reference. I think it's really interesting to see someone, essentially, convince a crowd of people that what they're seeing isn't horrifying and, instead, fun.
I liked Rocky's character though, it felt less sleazy to me (okay, hear me out), and more just someone who wants to do his job well. Like he's the one making everyone else happy. All it takes is just a tweak of morality. It felt to me like he was going through the whole ordeal too, like he was part of the marathon along with the dancers.
I was trying to think of something to watch that was similar in terms of format but that wasn't as horrifying, maybe as something of a palate cleanser: "Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory".
I haven't read everything by Roald Dahl, admittedly, but I'm almost sure that none of his books end with murder/suicide.
That is a smart comparison. The dwindling number of kids in "Willy Wonka" seems scary similar to this movie and so many gothic stories, like "Usher II" by Ray Bradbury -- which is a very early meta-gothic done seventy years before 'Cabin in the Woods.'
I also thought as “devilish” as Rocky seemed, he also was presented as pathetic and sad, sleeping in his clothes, worrying over receipts with Turkey, and trying to salvage the show with its numerous mishaps. He has no misconceptions about himself and what he’s being forced to do. His fear of the audience losing interest seems all-consuming.
I found it enjoyable, the scenes were too long for my delicate attention span but none of them were wasted. Each offered insight into who characters were and/or their motives.
It's always nice to see actors act in older movies.
There is an enormous amount of doom and gloom around the couples, all of it is projected from someone whose inevitable doom wasn't noticeable.
The setting being decades before the movie makes me see the whole movie as a critique on society as a whole. Everyone having bills, the people sitting back and enjoying suffering with their free time while more poor people suffer incessantly.
I like that Eric Foreman made a mistake and went for the wrong woman and paid for it.
I liked the depth to Jane Fonda's characters past as opposed to someone who just wants to be outside and observe.
Thank you for the suggestion it's a movie, that I will always remember.
I think the flashbacks were used to make us think we knew more than we thought. Suffering under a microscope is devastating while over time it becomes more amusing.
I also remembered, only the winners pay the tab. So does everyone else perish? Maybe that's why they both made the choices they did?
This is exactly like college. I have no idea what time class starts and I can never seem to find my pencil.
And the lazy instructor just throws movies at you...
The last time I was in college it took me 4 years to get a 2-year art degree. I'm not foreshadowing or anything.
It took me five years to get a B.A. in Journalism. Then I had to work getting Miranda Priestly her Starbucks, searing hot, and fly her back from Miami in a hurricane. No, wait, that was a movie. Sorry, I ate lead and mercury for lunch today.
Lead and Mercury is my favorite Toney Bennett song
Just tell me you did it for the Chanel boots. When you drop off the book, don’t speak to anyone.
How do I know this really is real
Cuz Fight Club is my favorite book like ever
Ah Karie, you are always the skeptic. Sigh.
Only movie I own too lol
I was held back in grade 5. Opened my report card on the school bus full of kids waiting to see if I failed or passed. I still remember the horror of failure as they laughed. I still have nightmares that I need one last math credit to graduate. I sense Chuck is going to be my Freddy Krueger.
Eyes front, Mr. MacPhail!
Highly recommend everyone check the Wikipedia after watching this depression era black mirror...wow
Jane Fonda is just magnificent.
Went down a Wikipedia rabbit hole on this one after watching the flick. Gig Young's real life ending. Dude... Just... Dude.
Yowza.
I remember years ago when you did an early reading of 'Choke' at KGB in NYC. It was late afternoon and the audience was a bit punchy, smudgy day-drunk and awash with that grubby, stained light that filtered past gummy windows. You had a couple of giggle fits while reading, were awash with people post, and then as it slowly died down you asked what the piece of paper I was holding was. I told you it was my Movies To See list, you immediately snatched it, and scrawled both this flick and 'The Haunting of Hill House' right at the bottom...
I carved out time and watched this film for the first time last night. Holy shit I wasn’t prepared for that. Resonants with me on so many levels. And I bet I’m not alone. Thanks for introducing me to this masterpiece. Can’t wait to hear you discuss this within the context of the class.
Thanks for watching it. The movie demonstrates so many storytelling devices, not the least of which is Big Voice vs. Little Voice. Little Voice (aka Recording Angel) is the camera's viewpoint. Big Voice is Gig Young's speech about assisting his faith healer father, and the nature of human belief systems. I could teach a semester on his film alone.
I'd never seen this. I can't stop thinking about it. The tension (which i have trouble with in my writing) was unbearable sometimes, I needed to get up and walk away from the screen! Thank you for introducing this to me. I'm looking for more like it.
I've had this on my watch list for awhile so thanks for the excuse to finally watch it. I love Dancer in the Dark and Breaking the Waves, there is just something so sickly beautiful about martyrdom but I'm having trouble constructing a character that the audience sees as a genuine martyr and not as naive or weak.
Wow. How did I not know about this movie before? Like a comment below, I wasn't prepared for that, thank you so much for this! There is so many great things in it, it's hard to process...
Thank you for the introduction to this film, Chuck (Mr. Palahniuk). I thought it was great and I'm interested in seeing what people have to say in response to the quiz questions, as there's a lot to dissect and discuss. I also gotta ask - although I might be extrapolating a lil our of left field here - did this film have any influence on your book "Haunted"? I thought, whilst watching the film, that, although the people and circumstances are quite different, a bunch of desperate, exhausted, anaemic looking characters stuck in a remote location with increasingly drastic rising tensions and dangerous/absurd scenario's culminating in a tragic ending seemed a little reminiscent of a certain collection of short stories that I quite enjoy.
Despite the title, I was still totally unprepared for how tragic this was, and also, how it's weirdly like a depression era Battle Royale. I did not expect some sadomasochistic spectacle from the slow burn start.
I love the idea of a faith healer playing second fiddle to the faith, like they're just there to point it out and the audience does all the work. That the audience is the one with all the power.
To me the film has always been a kind of "gothic" because of the claustrophobic setting, stifling and removed from the world. And the dwindling number of players, so much like "And Then There Were None" and "Session 9." And the building madness like in the Julie Harris version of "The Haunting."
I'd forgotten "Session 9" even existed, it's been years since I saw that! If I remember, it was pretty good.
Comparing the two, do you think that the setting helps or hinders the tension? Like, if it's already set somewhere dark and scary (like an insane asylum), does it give the audience a heads up? Like, 'be prepared, this is gonna get nasty'? I think that "They Shoot Horses" was maybe more tense because it was supposed to be portrayed as something fun (despite the opening scene). That the enjoyment of the dance-hall audience made the suffering of the contestants seem even worse because their joy seemed so jarring to the misery of the dancers.
I think I've only seen bits of the 1970's adaptation of "And Then There Were None", but it might be one to rewatch. There looks to be plenty of versions to choose from. Surely everyone like a good Agatha Christie film?
My thoughts on the assignment:
1. The clock/days/couples left scoreboard in the back is the perfect foil for the couples. As the time goes up and couples go down, there's that descent. The movie star loses her looks, the Sailor's uniform is no longer white, the redhead dancing with the Sailor hallucinates things crawling on her, and so on. Rocky the emcee is an antagonist but to me, the main villain is the scoreboard (and I'll explain why later).
2. There's a scene in the movie Midsommar where the people are dancing around the pole and eventually all collapse. This is as tense as that scene but nearly two hours long. It's macabre how people would go to watch what is basically sponsored torture. A prelude to current reality tv where people will go naked in the African desert for 21 days for a few hundred thousand dollars. This brilliant movie has now come to life in the form of Survivor, Alone, Naked and Afraid and Big Brother.
3. I went down the Wikipedia rabbit hole and saw Jane Fonda lost the Oscar to Maggie Smith in 1969. I need to see The Prime of Miss Jean Brodie because Jane Fonda was a BEAST in this. She embodied cynicism. "Got it rigged before you even show up" which I'm sure a lot of us can relate to nowadays.
4. I looked it up and $1,500 in 1932 is $29,952.59 now. Put more perspective on how awful the Depression was. To go through that torture for other's amusement for $30k and more perspective on our earnings now. Imagine doing that...dancing for 60+ days for $30k. F that, amiright?
5. The second derby was amazing. Yeah, Sailor died but the camera cuts from person to person to person? The upbeat music over the misery of the contestants? People in formal wear were cheering? It was the best scene in my opinion.
6. Gig Young's 'Rocky' character is sleazy just like Richard Dawson's in the Running Man. A total corrupt showman/promoter/torture pimp.
7. Hole. E. Shit. The brief flash-forwards built up to that? They were subtle, not overdone. You could guess any which ways on what was going to happen. I love love LOVE the way Sydney Pollack juxtaposed Jane Fonda falling in the field the way the horse did at the beginning.
8. In the end, there were 6 couples left after 62 days. This is why I think the scoreboard is the main villain. No matter how much you push and sacrifice and struggle; you're just a number to a businessman. The businessman (Rocky) is a corrupt piece of shit, yeah but there's always a business to run no matter what field of work (or economic event like the Great Depression) to keep score of us all.
9. After that, I need to watch something more lighthearted. I think the film version of Cormac McCarthy's "The Road" or "A Serbian Film" will cheer me up after that.
All excellent points, but for now I'll point out that the number of couples is the only real "clock" because the actual clock doesn't decide anything. Just as the "clock" in 'Rosemary's Baby' is the pregnancy.
And, yes, a snuff film would be cheerful after this.
Just past the hour mark the number of couples sat at twenty-five, twelve minutes later twenty-one, then twenty at four minutes after that. Six minutes later we get thirteen and a half with Gloria in the spotlight. That last half hour is almost all Fonda. We’ve been given almost everything but her last bit of tenacity. The next drop outs leave us less concerned with how many actually remain and more with where Gloria is going.
Hah! You sound like my student, Colton. He was running almost "Moneyball-level" stats on the couples and the hours danced.
I had the elapsed hours written down as well. The numbers seem like a bit of a ruse considering how it turns out. Their sponsor’s product seemed more significant. Iron being a slang term for firearm and Tonic being the “cure.” Clever.
Whoa - I know none of us caught THAT. Well done.
for the record, I'll prolly finish watching Turn: Washington's Spies on Netflix. I have no interest in watching A Serbian Film.
I totally get the running man reference. I think it's really interesting to see someone, essentially, convince a crowd of people that what they're seeing isn't horrifying and, instead, fun.
I liked Rocky's character though, it felt less sleazy to me (okay, hear me out), and more just someone who wants to do his job well. Like he's the one making everyone else happy. All it takes is just a tweak of morality. It felt to me like he was going through the whole ordeal too, like he was part of the marathon along with the dancers.
I was trying to think of something to watch that was similar in terms of format but that wasn't as horrifying, maybe as something of a palate cleanser: "Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory".
I haven't read everything by Roald Dahl, admittedly, but I'm almost sure that none of his books end with murder/suicide.
That is a smart comparison. The dwindling number of kids in "Willy Wonka" seems scary similar to this movie and so many gothic stories, like "Usher II" by Ray Bradbury -- which is a very early meta-gothic done seventy years before 'Cabin in the Woods.'
I also thought as “devilish” as Rocky seemed, he also was presented as pathetic and sad, sleeping in his clothes, worrying over receipts with Turkey, and trying to salvage the show with its numerous mishaps. He has no misconceptions about himself and what he’s being forced to do. His fear of the audience losing interest seems all-consuming.
I found it enjoyable, the scenes were too long for my delicate attention span but none of them were wasted. Each offered insight into who characters were and/or their motives.
It's always nice to see actors act in older movies.
There is an enormous amount of doom and gloom around the couples, all of it is projected from someone whose inevitable doom wasn't noticeable.
The setting being decades before the movie makes me see the whole movie as a critique on society as a whole. Everyone having bills, the people sitting back and enjoying suffering with their free time while more poor people suffer incessantly.
I like that Eric Foreman made a mistake and went for the wrong woman and paid for it.
I liked the depth to Jane Fonda's characters past as opposed to someone who just wants to be outside and observe.
Thank you for the suggestion it's a movie, that I will always remember.
I think the flashbacks were used to make us think we knew more than we thought. Suffering under a microscope is devastating while over time it becomes more amusing.