Thank you for this! I love Capote so much. And I'm obsessed with the relationship he had with Harper Lee. It's the only banned book I ever read where I was marveled by the fact that she wasn't shot in the head and still living in the South. I can't get enough of the two. I lived in Tennessee for years. Crazy.
I think I read that Capote and Lee had a falling out at one point. Capote said something insulting to her about her book. I can't remember what he said.
They absolutely did. Capote had a bit of a competitive streak to say the least. He also had contempt for the high society swans he rolled with and wrote Answered Prayers. He shouldn't have. It was mean but I would be lying if I didn't say I didn't understand his contempt for pretentious assholes. And they left him for dead when he wrote the book. I think he did it on purpose. He really wanted a ride or die and to figure out if these bitches really did ride. They did not. But he was also very disrespectful. Just because your testing someone allegiance doesn't give you the right to be a complete dick.
And In Cold Blood and Music for Chameleons are ridiculously good! I just marvel at them. I'm currently at the high end of the mall trying to negotiate an agreement with the gatekeepers of Prada/Balaenciga/Burberry/Saint Laurent and Coach. This is a great break from that. Thank you.
I went to the Prada store today loaded with my resume, computer and portfolio. Gangster. Prada told me to come back in an hour because they had customers to tend to. I came back and as I waited for management I stared down the hot security guard: "I waited for you." He totally melted and giggled. I was hilarious.
I also went to Saint Laurent and I didn't even say a word and the security guard opened the doors and said "Are you ready?!" "Yes Sir!" LOL
I also went into Burberry. They were a bit standoffish as I stared down a black trench coat and hallmark Burberry scarf. But they gave me their business card any way.
Yeah I mean if you want to know if someone has your allegiance you don't say and do terrible things to them. Make them do it. For example, if Capote was having lunch with one of his swans he could simply dare her to stick a teaspoon up her twat and then put it back in her tea. I think that's pretty good.
Well she can just lick the teaspoon and neatly place it on the napkin with a smile. Both of them snickering. Would the teaspoon be an example of an allegory Sir?
A-ha! In one entry in his abundance of diaries Franz Kafka remarks of two seamstresses who are secondary characters in a play (they sew the linen for the play’s bride): “What happens to these two girls? Where do they live? What have they done that they may not be part of the play but stand, as it were, outside in front of Noah’s ark, drowning in the downpour of rain, and may only press their faces one last time against a cabin window, so that the audience in the stalls sees something dark there for a moment?”
Your order of importance with the DOES > SAYS >THINKS > NAME is fascinating to me. Does that mean you can depict a nameless character with little dialogue and thinking, as long as they are doing something clear and compelling?
And when you say THINKS...is that introspection? Hmmm, I always believed it was a good thing to include introspection to build a character's voice.
You definitely speak to me with this. I hate choosing names for characters. And I even got a baby book of my own with 100,000 names. Should I throw it away? Haha
To me, it always feels like choosing a name is done out of obligation because...everybody's gotta have a name, right? It's even more complicated when you want to choose a name with a meaning that relates to the lesson they have to learn or the theme of the story.
Eh screw it, I'm naming all my male characters Jean-Luc.
Yes! One of my favorite essays you wrote was about those pesky thought verbs, the one on Litreactor. And you mentioned how it was a mistake for a writer to leave their characters alone. They're prone to do too much thinking, worrying.
Your story Guts, especially the last part about the kid in the pool, depicts characters by themselves while they masturbate. But I think since we are so gripped and fascinated by their actions, it didn't matter they were alone. Am I right about that? I'm trying to see if there's exceptions to it.
All hail Gates McFadden the greatest starship doctor ever. May her name never fade away!
Gladys tends to be a frequent first name. I’ve also met a few Aloysius‘s too. For last names Loizotte and Zuiduma were amongst the most exotic European names.
My daughter and I have been visiting graveyards cause she’s 14, edgy, and curious about death. They dont let you do grave rubbings anymore but the names that have faded from use are a wealth for us fledgling novelists.
If you get a chance ever check out the Oak Hill Cemetery in Woonsocket RI. It’s gorgeous.
I had a drink with Truman Capote one time at the Mansion Bar in Missoula, MT. He was there for a book tour. Told a VERY funny story about a party in Beverly Hills where they had a scavenger hunt. One item was an Oscar statuette. They went to Walter Matthau's house and he gave them his. Johnny Carson was on his team and never left the car cause he was so blitzed. I tried to come up with an original, show-off question to ask Truman and finally said, "So, how did you meet Bianca Jagger" So lame. I still kick myself. And I think it made him mad that I was more interested in her than him. I'm including the anecdote in a new book I'm working on.
In college my friends and I loved to drink at Max's Bar, but only if we could get the large, round table to the left of the front door. Legend had it that when Dylan Thomas spoke at the University of Oregon he later got loaded at that table. I hope I can layer myself onto the legend of that table.
Hope this helps.... When Capote died, half his ashes were scattered, and half were given to JoAnna Carson in a bronze urn shaped like a book. It sat on her bedside table until a large party -- when the urn/ashes were stolen by an unknown guest. To this day, no one knows the location of that urn and half of Capote's cremains.
Huh? I love Missoula but don't know the Mansion Bar.
Holy shit, Truman would not like his ashes being in unknown hands. The Mansion was up on the hill but burned down. Rebuilt now but nowhere near its former glory. Truman drank straight vodka with orange juice on the side.
You got me? He's composed of actions, with added pontification. The narrator has no name so to my mind that makes Marla Singer and Tyler Durden secondary characters. He alternates as Tyler, Tyler Durden, and Mister Durden.
Chuck, do you find that names attached to characters with a larger relevancy to a narrative come more easy or more difficult than other character names to you? Buster “Rant” Casey for example, was his name there from the get go or did it go through some toil?
It had to be "Rant" because it's a verb like 'Choke.' The rest was arbitrary. The name I had to fight for was "Tina Something." My editor hated that name.
Yes, but you’ve also stated that his name is based on someone you knew mixed with Toby Tyler (played by one of the Corcoran acting family) the kid character who “Goes to the Circus” and has adventures captured on cellulloid. Sometimes the magic happens in other ways and there are, naturally, exceptions to the rules. Plus, Tyler doesn’t exist so maybe the rules shouldn’t/don’t apply to him?
You're right. Bear in mind that he's also an imaginary person in the story. So... the make-believe character occurs as more "real" than the "real" character.
His name origins make perfect sense considering his placement/purpose. Currently loving that “Imperial Bedrooms” by B.E.E. seems to follow the guidelines emphasizing the importance of doing. Along with the holdover from “Zero,” Rip, there are a Rain, a Flew, and a “boy who plays Kevin Spacey’s son” who all show up and reappear throughout. I have my own theory about how “Kelly Montrose” might be novel’s exception, but I’m only halfway through and still collecting evidence.
I thought about this. I think that most people including myself have been raised to keep their head down, shut the fuck up and do what your told. Mind your manners and stay quiet. When Jack stood up and started living, he finally had a name. Unfortunately that name was Tyler Durden who was a douche. Most people who get power turn to corruption and dont allow their power to change anything. They self implode with ego and selfishness. Look at the Jonestown Massacre and most upper-class people born into wealth.
The big moosie. That’s what I sometimes call my dog, Abby. Although, she doesn’t really know what I call her. She’s deaf. And an uncoordinated klutz. Things like that nickname made me love Fight Club so much because it gave The Narrator that much more … authority? It makes both characters feel so much more real. Just like what you’re saying with Mr. Good Hair. And depending on how that person relates to you your mind has a way of framing a certain perception of them. It’s intriguing to consider that a guy at work could be Mr. Perfect to everyone at the office and at home to his family he could be Mr. Domestic Violence. The next day he could be Mr. Jobless.
I've still no idea where that line came from... The big moosie. The big cheese bread. To arrive at such intuitive weirdness feels so right. Like the wailing at the end of a good song.
Ahahahaha the big cheese bread! I love it so much. Because all of us have these little inside jokes and stories that we tell ourselves within our head. Sometimes it’s the only way to get yourself to smile. It’s crazy how I’ll invent an entire narrative about how someone’s life must be when in reality I know nothing about them. Even a complete stranger in line at the grocery store.
Re: ‘intuitive weirdness’ — that is something that I’m learning is so precious to capture. It can be easy to overthink and all the sudden you leave something out when if you just kept it simple and let the strange creativity flow, you realize what you put down is a little nugget of gold.
As far as inventing names in writing go...the same principle holds true for someone's job. I don't like small talk. I don't care what you do as a job or what your title is unless some shits on your desk every morning. To quote Django Unchained "You had my curiosity. Now you've got my attention."
I wish I was part of the Zappa family— they have the best names and the coolest of cool, Frank as a Father. Met Dweezil a few times, made him an UPcycled flannel—- he played the whole “Hot Rats” album like a GOD in Cleveland.
Joe Frank! The Bible Salesman! I often think of his stories and that story in particular. Just dark and perfect. He was a good man. It was very action based with short words and visuals and scathing. Yes. I often think of him.
"Joe travels around the country selling corrupted Bibles to support his mother in a nursing home. He recalls his mother’s anti-religious fervor and his father’s failed suicide attempt. Joe pimps nuns in Montana to help save their convent from bankruptcy. Then he searches for peace through the catacombs of Rome and the shipyards of Rio. Finally, he finds success as an actor playing Jesus"
No offense, but the orgasm is the gun. It can happen at any time, but when it does it resolves the tension. The clock is the battery in the vibrator that will go dead after so many minutes. Trust me on this one.
No offense taken! I stand corrected, I'll accept it as a gun.
Wait a second...I feel like an idiot now. I'm flipping through Consider This to the Clock vs Gun section to refresh. I highlighted a paragraph about guns except for the last sentence which was...
Another thought! My friend just posted a FB story about how to make potato salad. He does this wearing bondage gear and fisting gloves. And he follows the recipes beautifully. And half the fun is the comments. I've never been more excited about potato salad in my life.
And Flannery O'Conner's A Good Man Is Hard to Find which may be my most favorite of all things was nearly devoid of names. Just a bunch of terror. She was devastating.
You had to love 'The Misfit' as a character. Outlaws get the best allegorical names. Do people still go to the post office and fantasize over the mug shots they hang in the lobby?
It was still an ultrasound if I remember correctly.
His name will be Levi because he will be a little bastard.
Thank you for this! I love Capote so much. And I'm obsessed with the relationship he had with Harper Lee. It's the only banned book I ever read where I was marveled by the fact that she wasn't shot in the head and still living in the South. I can't get enough of the two. I lived in Tennessee for years. Crazy.
I think I read that Capote and Lee had a falling out at one point. Capote said something insulting to her about her book. I can't remember what he said.
They absolutely did. Capote had a bit of a competitive streak to say the least. He also had contempt for the high society swans he rolled with and wrote Answered Prayers. He shouldn't have. It was mean but I would be lying if I didn't say I didn't understand his contempt for pretentious assholes. And they left him for dead when he wrote the book. I think he did it on purpose. He really wanted a ride or die and to figure out if these bitches really did ride. They did not. But he was also very disrespectful. Just because your testing someone allegiance doesn't give you the right to be a complete dick.
The tired saying: You can take the boy out of the trailer park...
As Beck says "He saved all his food stamps and burned down the trailer park."
“Soy un perdedor.”
And In Cold Blood and Music for Chameleons are ridiculously good! I just marvel at them. I'm currently at the high end of the mall trying to negotiate an agreement with the gatekeepers of Prada/Balaenciga/Burberry/Saint Laurent and Coach. This is a great break from that. Thank you.
I went to the Prada store today loaded with my resume, computer and portfolio. Gangster. Prada told me to come back in an hour because they had customers to tend to. I came back and as I waited for management I stared down the hot security guard: "I waited for you." He totally melted and giggled. I was hilarious.
I also went to Saint Laurent and I didn't even say a word and the security guard opened the doors and said "Are you ready?!" "Yes Sir!" LOL
I also went into Burberry. They were a bit standoffish as I stared down a black trench coat and hallmark Burberry scarf. But they gave me their business card any way.
In 'Answered Prayers' the scene where Capote depicts Tennessee Williams in a suite at the Plaza filled with dog turds... nasty and mean.
Yeah I mean if you want to know if someone has your allegiance you don't say and do terrible things to them. Make them do it. For example, if Capote was having lunch with one of his swans he could simply dare her to stick a teaspoon up her twat and then put it back in her tea. I think that's pretty good.
Oh dear. Other people have to use that cutlery.
Well she can just lick the teaspoon and neatly place it on the napkin with a smile. Both of them snickering. Would the teaspoon be an example of an allegory Sir?
Many people say they broke off because she won the Pulitzer. The George Plimpton book goes into great detail about that.
A-ha! In one entry in his abundance of diaries Franz Kafka remarks of two seamstresses who are secondary characters in a play (they sew the linen for the play’s bride): “What happens to these two girls? Where do they live? What have they done that they may not be part of the play but stand, as it were, outside in front of Noah’s ark, drowning in the downpour of rain, and may only press their faces one last time against a cabin window, so that the audience in the stalls sees something dark there for a moment?”
It’s no wonder he does not ask their names…
Great post.
Yow. Thank you.
Your order of importance with the DOES > SAYS >THINKS > NAME is fascinating to me. Does that mean you can depict a nameless character with little dialogue and thinking, as long as they are doing something clear and compelling?
And when you say THINKS...is that introspection? Hmmm, I always believed it was a good thing to include introspection to build a character's voice.
You definitely speak to me with this. I hate choosing names for characters. And I even got a baby book of my own with 100,000 names. Should I throw it away? Haha
To me, it always feels like choosing a name is done out of obligation because...everybody's gotta have a name, right? It's even more complicated when you want to choose a name with a meaning that relates to the lesson they have to learn or the theme of the story.
Eh screw it, I'm naming all my male characters Jean-Luc.
Sorry, my bugaboo is thinking characters. It's always the goal to externalize thinking, knowing, considering, believing, remembering in my fiction.
Yes! One of my favorite essays you wrote was about those pesky thought verbs, the one on Litreactor. And you mentioned how it was a mistake for a writer to leave their characters alone. They're prone to do too much thinking, worrying.
Your story Guts, especially the last part about the kid in the pool, depicts characters by themselves while they masturbate. But I think since we are so gripped and fascinated by their actions, it didn't matter they were alone. Am I right about that? I'm trying to see if there's exceptions to it.
It's why "Sympathy for the Devil" wordk so well ..."Pleased to meet you, hope you guess my name..."
In Tom Spanbauer's best-known novel, he starts out with, "If you're the devil, this isn't me telling this story..." What a hook!
OOOOOOH!
Working in a nursing home I get lots of good ideas for names. Last names especially.
I love old obituary names. They seem to be trending, like Olive and Angus. And Southern family names, like "Gates" as a first name.
All hail Gates McFadden the greatest starship doctor ever. May her name never fade away!
Gladys tends to be a frequent first name. I’ve also met a few Aloysius‘s too. For last names Loizotte and Zuiduma were amongst the most exotic European names.
My daughter and I have been visiting graveyards cause she’s 14, edgy, and curious about death. They dont let you do grave rubbings anymore but the names that have faded from use are a wealth for us fledgling novelists.
If you get a chance ever check out the Oak Hill Cemetery in Woonsocket RI. It’s gorgeous.
I write mostly in graveyards in my Outback passenger seat. Lot of good names on tombstones and I reflect on them often, to avoid writing.
Agreed. A student of mine recently sent a photo of his grandfather's tombstone. The first name was "Royal."
Came across a great name the other day - a linebacker for University of Arkansas named Bumper Pool. Not dead yet.
Like a giant stepping into a creek, dividing the stream into many.
Wonderful insight.
My friend just renamed me Fergus, I really like it..
I had a drink with Truman Capote one time at the Mansion Bar in Missoula, MT. He was there for a book tour. Told a VERY funny story about a party in Beverly Hills where they had a scavenger hunt. One item was an Oscar statuette. They went to Walter Matthau's house and he gave them his. Johnny Carson was on his team and never left the car cause he was so blitzed. I tried to come up with an original, show-off question to ask Truman and finally said, "So, how did you meet Bianca Jagger" So lame. I still kick myself. And I think it made him mad that I was more interested in her than him. I'm including the anecdote in a new book I'm working on.
No way. I'm blown away! Thank you so much for sharing. Having a drink with Capote. Fantastic!
In college my friends and I loved to drink at Max's Bar, but only if we could get the large, round table to the left of the front door. Legend had it that when Dylan Thomas spoke at the University of Oregon he later got loaded at that table. I hope I can layer myself onto the legend of that table.
https://www.maxseugene.com/
You already have Sir.
Hope this helps.... When Capote died, half his ashes were scattered, and half were given to JoAnna Carson in a bronze urn shaped like a book. It sat on her bedside table until a large party -- when the urn/ashes were stolen by an unknown guest. To this day, no one knows the location of that urn and half of Capote's cremains.
Huh? I love Missoula but don't know the Mansion Bar.
Holy shit, Truman would not like his ashes being in unknown hands. The Mansion was up on the hill but burned down. Rebuilt now but nowhere near its former glory. Truman drank straight vodka with orange juice on the side.
And baked potatoes covered in 80% Absolute Vodka with excessive amounts of caviar piled on. God, I love him.
All he had was JaAnna at the end. Ugh.
Thank you so much Sir.
Why does Tyler Durden work so well then
You got me? He's composed of actions, with added pontification. The narrator has no name so to my mind that makes Marla Singer and Tyler Durden secondary characters. He alternates as Tyler, Tyler Durden, and Mister Durden.
Chuck, do you find that names attached to characters with a larger relevancy to a narrative come more easy or more difficult than other character names to you? Buster “Rant” Casey for example, was his name there from the get go or did it go through some toil?
It had to be "Rant" because it's a verb like 'Choke.' The rest was arbitrary. The name I had to fight for was "Tina Something." My editor hated that name.
Yes, but you’ve also stated that his name is based on someone you knew mixed with Toby Tyler (played by one of the Corcoran acting family) the kid character who “Goes to the Circus” and has adventures captured on cellulloid. Sometimes the magic happens in other ways and there are, naturally, exceptions to the rules. Plus, Tyler doesn’t exist so maybe the rules shouldn’t/don’t apply to him?
You're right. Bear in mind that he's also an imaginary person in the story. So... the make-believe character occurs as more "real" than the "real" character.
His name origins make perfect sense considering his placement/purpose. Currently loving that “Imperial Bedrooms” by B.E.E. seems to follow the guidelines emphasizing the importance of doing. Along with the holdover from “Zero,” Rip, there are a Rain, a Flew, and a “boy who plays Kevin Spacey’s son” who all show up and reappear throughout. I have my own theory about how “Kelly Montrose” might be novel’s exception, but I’m only halfway through and still collecting evidence.
I thought about this. I think that most people including myself have been raised to keep their head down, shut the fuck up and do what your told. Mind your manners and stay quiet. When Jack stood up and started living, he finally had a name. Unfortunately that name was Tyler Durden who was a douche. Most people who get power turn to corruption and dont allow their power to change anything. They self implode with ego and selfishness. Look at the Jonestown Massacre and most upper-class people born into wealth.
Good point. Very American. James Gatz becoming the outlaw Jay Gatsby.
The big moosie. That’s what I sometimes call my dog, Abby. Although, she doesn’t really know what I call her. She’s deaf. And an uncoordinated klutz. Things like that nickname made me love Fight Club so much because it gave The Narrator that much more … authority? It makes both characters feel so much more real. Just like what you’re saying with Mr. Good Hair. And depending on how that person relates to you your mind has a way of framing a certain perception of them. It’s intriguing to consider that a guy at work could be Mr. Perfect to everyone at the office and at home to his family he could be Mr. Domestic Violence. The next day he could be Mr. Jobless.
I've still no idea where that line came from... The big moosie. The big cheese bread. To arrive at such intuitive weirdness feels so right. Like the wailing at the end of a good song.
Ahahahaha the big cheese bread! I love it so much. Because all of us have these little inside jokes and stories that we tell ourselves within our head. Sometimes it’s the only way to get yourself to smile. It’s crazy how I’ll invent an entire narrative about how someone’s life must be when in reality I know nothing about them. Even a complete stranger in line at the grocery store.
Re: ‘intuitive weirdness’ — that is something that I’m learning is so precious to capture. It can be easy to overthink and all the sudden you leave something out when if you just kept it simple and let the strange creativity flow, you realize what you put down is a little nugget of gold.
As far as inventing names in writing go...the same principle holds true for someone's job. I don't like small talk. I don't care what you do as a job or what your title is unless some shits on your desk every morning. To quote Django Unchained "You had my curiosity. Now you've got my attention."
I wish I was part of the Zappa family— they have the best names and the coolest of cool, Frank as a Father. Met Dweezil a few times, made him an UPcycled flannel—- he played the whole “Hot Rats” album like a GOD in Cleveland.
Joe Frank! The Bible Salesman! I often think of his stories and that story in particular. Just dark and perfect. He was a good man. It was very action based with short words and visuals and scathing. Yes. I often think of him.
"Joe travels around the country selling corrupted Bibles to support his mother in a nursing home. He recalls his mother’s anti-religious fervor and his father’s failed suicide attempt. Joe pimps nuns in Montana to help save their convent from bankruptcy. Then he searches for peace through the catacombs of Rome and the shipyards of Rio. Finally, he finds success as an actor playing Jesus"
He totally pimped some nuns.
Had a small revelation this morning. In a sex scene, is the orgasm a kind of clock? Because it would be a moment that concludes the scene.
No offense, but the orgasm is the gun. It can happen at any time, but when it does it resolves the tension. The clock is the battery in the vibrator that will go dead after so many minutes. Trust me on this one.
No offense taken! I stand corrected, I'll accept it as a gun.
Wait a second...I feel like an idiot now. I'm flipping through Consider This to the Clock vs Gun section to refresh. I highlighted a paragraph about guns except for the last sentence which was...
"Like death, or the orgasm at the end of sex."
It was right there this whole time
*facepalms*
Another thought! My friend just posted a FB story about how to make potato salad. He does this wearing bondage gear and fisting gloves. And he follows the recipes beautifully. And half the fun is the comments. I've never been more excited about potato salad in my life.
https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10159772069877552&set=pcb.10159772071872552
It might work better if he were stuffing a turkey... "First, lubricate the turkey."
And Flannery O'Conner's A Good Man Is Hard to Find which may be my most favorite of all things was nearly devoid of names. Just a bunch of terror. She was devastating.
You had to love 'The Misfit' as a character. Outlaws get the best allegorical names. Do people still go to the post office and fantasize over the mug shots they hang in the lobby?
God I love the South sometimes.
Allegory. I learned something new today. Thank you. And "Gates Lawless" would be a wicked Wild West Outlaw name.