I'm sure there are more of us who do it than don't. It's Gnossiene no. 3 for me. Or Moonlight Sonata. Can't do anything with lyrics, it fucks up my concentration.
1) Do we get a prize for reading that entire post?
2) Is *that* the book that you are purporting to be writing these days? Seems like a good candidate, judging by the length.
As a denizen of "Planet Canada" who once had perfect pitch (we're now within hailing distance), none of those musical references resonates with me, but that was my "brother" Oli Schroer's role. My long lost musical twin.
Hadn't you mentioned Dark Side of the Moon as a backdrop? I seem to remember a sliver of overlap in the Venn diagram of music.
Kidding aside, thanks for that tome. It's a frosty weekend and now I have something to do! ;) (aside from thinking up more puns).
I almost included 'Shine On You Crazy Diamond' and 'Wish You Were Here.' And I wanted to drop a longer post since I've been so side-lined by the new book.
A few years ago i bought A Lot of Sorrow on Vinyl - from the National, where they played the same song over and over for 6 hours. I listened all the way through. You can hear the band change and like you said, even they played different parts of the song differently and towards the end, the toll it took on them was audible. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZZfVQ178EY
After a lifetime of writing story songs, I wonder how this is affecting me writing fiction? Maybe I should put You Look Like Rain by Morphine or Damn Sam by Ryan Adams on repeat for the section I'm about to replace? Thanks for the questions. I will give it a go.
I really like this piece. Very interesting take on the writing process. Thanks for sharing.
BTW - in my mind's eye I envisioned the retro group ABC doing their "The Look of Love" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNEdxZURTaI) , not your Dusty Springfield song. Different triggers. Now I have an 80s earworm...cool.
After so many years of listening to Trent Reznor I have no hesitation. If he puts something out I own it and I know full well I will listen to it without break. I think I've purchased Downward Spiral at least half a dozen times in various forms. The only other album that comes close is OK Computer.
To clarify, I’m not advocating piracy! Just that once I experienced the infinite catalogue available via streaming, it’s been a while since I bought a new album. I do spend a shameful amount of time making playlists… sometimes playlists I’ve already essentially made before [shrug]
I’ve made playlists for the different characters in each story. In this I know their personality.
For instance, a recurring character in my stories is obsessed with Metallica, Pantera, Megadeth etc because he himself is quiet and shy but inwardly he’s holding back a lot of rage expressed in the music he likes.
Simple but effective, listening to it helps me get into his head. It reminds me of his life, past, and desires for the future.
Sanditon uses character driven music in the series. Brick is a really good movie example of the use of different music themes for each character.
I watch a ton of period drama like a little old lady trapped in a 30 something year old body. lol I am sure the folks here have "cooler" examples of this.
That's exactly how David Fincher conceived of the background music in 'Fight Club.' In particular Marla's theme, that bit of aria that wafts in with her entrance into a scene.
I believe Irvine Welsh does this. In his book ‘The Blade Artist’ the character Begbie constantly asks people if they’ve heard the song ‘Chinese Democracy’ by Guns ‘N’ Roses.
It's not that great. It's one of those rare cases where the movie is better than the book. I found myself wanting to skip over parts and I didn't even finish the book. But I'm a cheap and crass devil worshipper so what do I know...
My brain is a little boggled though because my "gem" of the day on Facebook Bird Misidentification page had to do with "Diving Under the Influence." So we're on that similar wavelength, at least.
I'll give you a hand for that. Cute! I can't believe I make typos when I write by hand. Good thing my writing is illegible to begin with! My typos hide in plain sight.
Around eight years ago my office had a karaoke night at a bar in downtown Toronto. Typical company mixer where people wear nametags. There was this one guy who worked in IT, and he looked like as stereotypical an IT employee as you can imagine: pudgy and pasty with bad skin and long stringy hair, and he wore the same leather carcoat all year round. Three different women I spoke with that night subtly pointed him out and said something like "that guy's a creep."
So the guy eventually gets up on the mic, and guess what song he performed?
I modeled a story I tried to write few months ago, on steps of the scientific method. So, I'm I right to understand that we can model a story on anything? despite what rules say do and don't. And is it best that the core of the story and the model that is structured on have some reasonable correlation? I hope this makes sense.
Clark Gregg had told me the writer wrote that piece for the closing credits of 'Choke' after the writer was told I'd written the book listening to 'Creep.' Small world stuff.
That's incredible. Makes sense though, the song fit the film perfectly. Also, speaking of Creep, not sure if you saw my anecdote about office karaoke but I thought you'd find it mildly amusing.
What’s funny is that Creep is my absolute least favorite Radiohead song and Reckoner is maybe my all-time favorite. And I miss Clark Gregg as Agent Coulson in Agents of Shield.
I listen to music while I write but different stuff at different stages. I like to make a playlist for my characters. What would they listen to? It helps me get into their headspace a little more I feel like.
That video was awesome. Listening to the same song that many times would crack me. If you ever need to make me reveal state secrets, that is the way to do it. Btw, some bands will write the lyrics first and construct a song around them. I don't know how that's possible because the words flow from the melody as you say.
It's mind blowing how the story, connected to music like you tell it, does undercover work, the way it naturally flows. I don't understand it but it has me. Do you ever hear that "voice / melody" out in public from a stranger and know that you have a story to run into? Have any of your books started that way?
Occasionally, but just in snatches, like when the bricklayer yelled, "I love the way you keep the mud alive!" But just that much can trigger an on-going voice that drives a whole book. Often the speaker is a kid who doesn't know "better" and just drones on with the most unlikely conjunctions.
And that's funny because it reminds me how Trent Reznor once told me about laying on his kitchen floor and listening to his refrigerator so he could replicate the compressor's noise in a song.
Anyone walking in would think he’s insane, but he’s just insanely in tune and searching for the right drone. Thanks for this anecdote, it’s inspiring to hear the ways people listen. The ceiling fan in my last apartment made this rusty bed-spring sound that got us to start saying, “the ghosts are making baby’s again.” Reading your post makes me want to listen harder.
Washing machines, windshield wipers, and the sound of a pallet jack with flat-spotted wheels being pulled over irregularly seamed concrete slabs are all musical as well.
One of my favorite sounds is a handful of m&m’s sliding out of my hand and slapped on top of a giant cookie when I’m making them at festivals. Is almost like a rain stick.
Put a pair of tennis shoes in the dryer, and I will listen to it. In the rave movie "Groove" a character watches her laundry in a dryer and begins to dance to the rhythm. In the novel 'Silence of the Lambs' Clarice falls asleep pressed against the "heartbeat" of the washing machine in her dormitory. Yeah, lots of ways to use sounds and music in storytelling.
Hey Chuck, I’d like to say thanks for introducing me to The Fictional Cafe which was included in a post at the beginning of the month. I submitted a micro-short story to them after discovery and I was told yesterday that they’d accepted it and it would be posted to their site in the near future.
I don’t think I could post it here. I’d feel like a schmuck trying to hand out his own demo tapes to people at a music gig. All the same though, I appreciate you asking.
Don't listen to music while writing for the same reason. Consistent mood.
me neither, I’ve never listened to music while I write. I might try it as an experiment though just to see what happens
Chuck, I have wondered in the past if I was crazy for listening to the same song on repeat for mood. It's nice to know I'm not the only one.
Same! I’ve ruined songs for past roommates.
I'm sure there are more of us who do it than don't. It's Gnossiene no. 3 for me. Or Moonlight Sonata. Can't do anything with lyrics, it fucks up my concentration.
Nowadays I'm a Satie guy. But the lyrics will get me through a rough first draft.
You're not a Satie guy too. Ffs Chuck!
I do it too. My kid totally complains sometimes, so eventually I have to change the song. lol
Don't cave!
Plus it drives people away. A win-win.
Says the guy who goes to parties (really just to test out his stories).
1) Do we get a prize for reading that entire post?
2) Is *that* the book that you are purporting to be writing these days? Seems like a good candidate, judging by the length.
As a denizen of "Planet Canada" who once had perfect pitch (we're now within hailing distance), none of those musical references resonates with me, but that was my "brother" Oli Schroer's role. My long lost musical twin.
Hadn't you mentioned Dark Side of the Moon as a backdrop? I seem to remember a sliver of overlap in the Venn diagram of music.
Kidding aside, thanks for that tome. It's a frosty weekend and now I have something to do! ;) (aside from thinking up more puns).
I almost included 'Shine On You Crazy Diamond' and 'Wish You Were Here.' And I wanted to drop a longer post since I've been so side-lined by the new book.
There's hope for you yet!
A few years ago i bought A Lot of Sorrow on Vinyl - from the National, where they played the same song over and over for 6 hours. I listened all the way through. You can hear the band change and like you said, even they played different parts of the song differently and towards the end, the toll it took on them was audible. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZZfVQ178EY
I effing love that song.
After a lifetime of writing story songs, I wonder how this is affecting me writing fiction? Maybe I should put You Look Like Rain by Morphine or Damn Sam by Ryan Adams on repeat for the section I'm about to replace? Thanks for the questions. I will give it a go.
I really like this piece. Very interesting take on the writing process. Thanks for sharing.
BTW - in my mind's eye I envisioned the retro group ABC doing their "The Look of Love" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNEdxZURTaI) , not your Dusty Springfield song. Different triggers. Now I have an 80s earworm...cool.
The goal is to "be" the ear worm....
That was my jam.
both times I interviewed you I asked you that question.
the first time you were touring for Lullaby and you have answered “the Fixed EP by NIN”.
the second time you were touring for Rant and you have answered “How Soon is Now?” by The Smiths.
“Last” is my go to for almost everything: running, lawn-mowing, drawing, and yes, rage-writing.
Fuck me, got my NIN EPs remixed up; I’m praising Broken.
After so many years of listening to Trent Reznor I have no hesitation. If he puts something out I own it and I know full well I will listen to it without break. I think I've purchased Downward Spiral at least half a dozen times in various forms. The only other album that comes close is OK Computer.
Agreed! But owning music feels so last decade
To clarify, I’m not advocating piracy! Just that once I experienced the infinite catalogue available via streaming, it’s been a while since I bought a new album. I do spend a shameful amount of time making playlists… sometimes playlists I’ve already essentially made before [shrug]
Yeah I don't have too many albums that are on my must have /must own list
I still buy vinyl
Who does NOT like The Smiths?
Morrisey
Haha!
Hehehe. Good one.
I’ve made playlists for the different characters in each story. In this I know their personality.
For instance, a recurring character in my stories is obsessed with Metallica, Pantera, Megadeth etc because he himself is quiet and shy but inwardly he’s holding back a lot of rage expressed in the music he likes.
Simple but effective, listening to it helps me get into his head. It reminds me of his life, past, and desires for the future.
Nice! I have seen this in drama series as well. Each character has their own back ground music.
Which one?
Sanditon uses character driven music in the series. Brick is a really good movie example of the use of different music themes for each character.
I watch a ton of period drama like a little old lady trapped in a 30 something year old body. lol I am sure the folks here have "cooler" examples of this.
In Twin Peaks there are themes for locations like the Double R Diner and the Dream World, but also for characters like Laura and Audrey.
That’s a great example! I love Audrey’s theme.
Same! I discovered the Album with all the themes on Spotify (by Angelo Badalamenti)
Location driven music. Nice!
That's exactly how David Fincher conceived of the background music in 'Fight Club.' In particular Marla's theme, that bit of aria that wafts in with her entrance into a scene.
I believe Irvine Welsh does this. In his book ‘The Blade Artist’ the character Begbie constantly asks people if they’ve heard the song ‘Chinese Democracy’ by Guns ‘N’ Roses.
Kill me but I haven’t read Trainspotting yet or much of anything Irvine Welsh has written. It’s in the pile of books I’m currently going through.
It's not that great. It's one of those rare cases where the movie is better than the book. I found myself wanting to skip over parts and I didn't even finish the book. But I'm a cheap and crass devil worshipper so what do I know...
Opinions matter! Once I’m through it I’ll tell ya what I think.
Reading ‘Trainspotting’ for the first time—I envy you! Hope you enjoy it.
Presently reading “my life as a dog” by Reidar Jonsson one that’s been on the back burner for a long time.
I may bump up Trainspotting just to see.
And listening to The Jungle on audiobook at Chucks behest.
That book was absolutely heart breaking
I couldn't get into Trainspotting. I think that's considered an act of treason around here.
I guess so long as you tried it counts. Lol
Heresy!
Psst I’ll tell you both a secret. I don’t find JBP very interesting or profound. Don’t tell Chuck though.
JBP?
Tune long, didn't read.
My brain is a little boggled though because my "gem" of the day on Facebook Bird Misidentification page had to do with "Diving Under the Influence." So we're on that similar wavelength, at least.
Filling out a job application by hand when I was tired, I once wrote that I had a bachelor o farts in English.
I'll give you a hand for that. Cute! I can't believe I make typos when I write by hand. Good thing my writing is illegible to begin with! My typos hide in plain sight.
Around eight years ago my office had a karaoke night at a bar in downtown Toronto. Typical company mixer where people wear nametags. There was this one guy who worked in IT, and he looked like as stereotypical an IT employee as you can imagine: pudgy and pasty with bad skin and long stringy hair, and he wore the same leather carcoat all year round. Three different women I spoke with that night subtly pointed him out and said something like "that guy's a creep."
So the guy eventually gets up on the mic, and guess what song he performed?
I modeled a story I tried to write few months ago, on steps of the scientific method. So, I'm I right to understand that we can model a story on anything? despite what rules say do and don't. And is it best that the core of the story and the model that is structured on have some reasonable correlation? I hope this makes sense.
And speaking of Radiohead and the Choke film, I always wondered: Did you have any say in getting "Reckoner" on the soundtrack? Love that tune.
Was that the closing credits song? I'd heard it was written for the film, but can't confirm that. And I did/do love that song.
Yes! And it's also on their album In Rainbows which came out around the same time as the film.
Clark Gregg had told me the writer wrote that piece for the closing credits of 'Choke' after the writer was told I'd written the book listening to 'Creep.' Small world stuff.
That's incredible. Makes sense though, the song fit the film perfectly. Also, speaking of Creep, not sure if you saw my anecdote about office karaoke but I thought you'd find it mildly amusing.
Oh wow. This is a story that I want to believe is true so much that I can’t help doubting it.
What’s funny is that Creep is my absolute least favorite Radiohead song and Reckoner is maybe my all-time favorite. And I miss Clark Gregg as Agent Coulson in Agents of Shield.
I think a lot of Radiohead fans would agree with you.
I listen to music while I write but different stuff at different stages. I like to make a playlist for my characters. What would they listen to? It helps me get into their headspace a little more I feel like.
Love this idea. Am stealing. Be listening to Neko Case tomorrow.
That video was awesome. Listening to the same song that many times would crack me. If you ever need to make me reveal state secrets, that is the way to do it. Btw, some bands will write the lyrics first and construct a song around them. I don't know how that's possible because the words flow from the melody as you say.
It's mind blowing how the story, connected to music like you tell it, does undercover work, the way it naturally flows. I don't understand it but it has me. Do you ever hear that "voice / melody" out in public from a stranger and know that you have a story to run into? Have any of your books started that way?
Occasionally, but just in snatches, like when the bricklayer yelled, "I love the way you keep the mud alive!" But just that much can trigger an on-going voice that drives a whole book. Often the speaker is a kid who doesn't know "better" and just drones on with the most unlikely conjunctions.
And that's funny because it reminds me how Trent Reznor once told me about laying on his kitchen floor and listening to his refrigerator so he could replicate the compressor's noise in a song.
Lets prank call him
Anyone walking in would think he’s insane, but he’s just insanely in tune and searching for the right drone. Thanks for this anecdote, it’s inspiring to hear the ways people listen. The ceiling fan in my last apartment made this rusty bed-spring sound that got us to start saying, “the ghosts are making baby’s again.” Reading your post makes me want to listen harder.
This made me smile. I love this substack so much.
Washing machines, windshield wipers, and the sound of a pallet jack with flat-spotted wheels being pulled over irregularly seamed concrete slabs are all musical as well.
One of my favorite sounds is a handful of m&m’s sliding out of my hand and slapped on top of a giant cookie when I’m making them at festivals. Is almost like a rain stick.
Put a pair of tennis shoes in the dryer, and I will listen to it. In the rave movie "Groove" a character watches her laundry in a dryer and begins to dance to the rhythm. In the novel 'Silence of the Lambs' Clarice falls asleep pressed against the "heartbeat" of the washing machine in her dormitory. Yeah, lots of ways to use sounds and music in storytelling.
Hey Chuck, I’d like to say thanks for introducing me to The Fictional Cafe which was included in a post at the beginning of the month. I submitted a micro-short story to them after discovery and I was told yesterday that they’d accepted it and it would be posted to their site in the near future.
Congratulations!
Thank you!
Congrats! Please post it here when it's up.
Thanks, Nick!
I don’t think I could post it here. I’d feel like a schmuck trying to hand out his own demo tapes to people at a music gig. All the same though, I appreciate you asking.
Fair enough, maybe just remind me when it's up.
Super congratulations!!
Thanks, Keri!