I know you’ve been doing this forever, but finishing a first draft in just over a month is crazy. It took me a year to finish my first draft. Also, you sent me annual seeds. Any reason you like annuals over perennials?
I hear this. First (and until now) only first draft I've ever finished took me two and a half years. And it was only after I got my first journalism job (on a trade magazine primarily published for the British tunnelling community haha) that I managed to a) get that draft finished, and b) realised that I needed to edit out about 50% of it and still it would be considered long and wordy.
How anyone can just sit down and write and get shit done in a short time is beyond me. Nothing but respect and admiration (and envy) for them, but I just can't relate.
Hey, the first novel is usually a quagmire. Mine took four or five years and ran to 850 pages, and was garbage. It gets easier after that, and the rules of Minimalism keep you from going off the rails and including too much.
The time works out to around ten weeks. Several of the biggest plots points had already been written as short stories. Once I had the book's "voice" I was off like a shot because the voice dictates every choice.
And... much of the book came from ideas I've carried around for thirty years or more. Amazing when what seems unrelated suddenly gels into an integrated mass.
Whenever I write something it stirs around in my head until the last possible minute and then it comes out all in one shot. I can't remember how many papers I wrote after my kids went to bed that were due the next day but I always got As. I know I got this but it's going to take alot of discipline lololol.
They would say I'm schizo all these connections and patterns i have that make my story great. But I want to say I'll be visiting places Gabby visited but not her final resting place because something otherworldly happened there we all saw the same thing and she's not part of my story but part of my journey. I only looked on Substack for you because I was outraged by the people blaming your book for her death????? So there's that.
My favorite texts to translate are the journalism pieces. Creativity meets parsimony. Not sure about the future of either career though. Let's have our fun while we can.
Not a sentence I thought I’d ever say, but congratulations on shitting out that piece of coal, Chuck!
In all seriousness though, congratulations and I hope the remaining process goes as smoothly as possible.
In regards to journalistic writing and collecting data from real life anecdotes, one story that’s stuck with me is one I read about a girl who one day when removing a nipple-piercing happened to notice a piece of clothing-string stuck to the piecing. She took a pair of scissors and cut the sting and then she woke up in the hospital. Turns out the string wasn’t clothing material but was, instead, a nerve. The moment she severed it she passed out and her mother later found her and called an ambulance. No idea how true the story is but it stuck. Maybe in a fictionalized version the person wakes up to find that their hair straightener which was knocked to the floor when they passed out has become grafted to the skin of their leg. And so on.
P.S. Did Charles Baxter’s short story ‘Media Event’ have some influence on your short story ‘Magnificent Filth’, Chuck?
They dont seem related, but your unnerving story reminded me of an ex who hit a horse at high speed. Then called her father for help, who yelled at her for crying. Poor gal.
I will have to reread that. The real inspiration for 'Filth' was a British book about manias and mass hysteria, called "Scared to Death." It covered the tragic advent of 'facilitated communication' and how it wrecked the lives of people.
Definitely a more bleak but also equally interesting source of inspiration. I asked about ‘Media Event’ primarily because the main character refers to themself by their full name, George Elliot Christianson, Jr., constantly and that, combined with some of the more “verbose” elements of the story, put me in mind of ‘Filth’
Being a (wasted) bio major I only took the required English classes and one forgettable creative writing class where my work was criticized as too revolting or creepy for readers. No journalism. So any writing I wanted to learn later had to be through expensive online classes and things like this substack. I took one class where I was told after was done writing the first draft, but before I went in to edit, I was to write a two page biography of each character including their full name, dob, job, education, relationship to the main character, etc. I took this idea in a different direction by writing each character’s obituary as it not only chronicles all this things but also how and when they die and as I am their god I know their sins. It’s been one of the most entertaining and enlightening parts of the process having my own “Book of Life” so to speak for my characters.
As an English major I always got a kick out of science or engineering students taking even a 100-level English or writing course as a requirement, expecting to ace it and bolster their average, then winding up with a C or D lol
I shouldn’t put that it was a wasted degree. Education is always worth it and I enjoyed learning. Just that the degree isn’t paying the bills as it’s goes for most people I know. I didnt make it into medical school or physician assistant school as my grades weren’t perfect. (That’s a requirement these days) and they said my essays weren’t good enough. (Couldn’t afford to have someone write it for me as most upper crust aholes did. I know for a fact an acquaintance of mine did this.) I made it into NP school and discovered that it would cost me another 78,000 I couldnt afford to borrow as I already owe like 50,0000. So now I’m waitlisted to become an RN cheap effective and it will get me into where I want to be.
I know of tons of companies and organizations that would love someone like you: a BA science background plus a writer. The RN will be fantastic and meaningful of course - and you will, I hope, be writing about it, and writing, as you do this important work. All to say I work with plenty of writers who studied science first and ended up being extremely successful. Whatever your path is, you will be too. (Btw: Boo to any lazy readers who said an essay wasn't "good enough" - that is usually shorthand for not being able to articulate what exactly they wanted instead.)
And also, you could not be more spot on about the "essay industry" that exists to "support" kids with these essays. It penalizes the non-trustfunded, which most of us are.
So in MA my 1 month certification as a CNA from 20 years ago is worth more than a BS in Biology. Go figure? The world of academic degrees upside down right now. One place dealing exclusively in development of corona vaccine wanted to pay me “up to 15.00 an hour,” as a lane tech. Shorthand for “were underpaying you and we know it and you probably won’t get a raise like ever.” Either way I like my present work with elder folk. They give me more/better ideas than any other job I I’ve had.
Dad and I do breakfast on Thursdays, and this past week, I was just talking to him about this. About how I’d been too shy to be a journalist—I’d always imagined I’d have to be pushy and race to the scene and interview people, and the whole reason I liked to write in the first place was to avoid talking to people. I would have loved to have gotten stuck with Obituaries, truly.
Looking back now, I think it could have gotten me a lot farther with writing a lot quicker. Should probably take a few online journalism classes—the beauty of living in the future—and see what skills I can add to my toolbox. I think teasing out a story is hard for even non-journalists. It is for me!
I understand about being stunned by sounds. In college, I heard the victim of a car accident scream outside my window in a way that I was sure her passenger had died. It shook me so much I included it in an essay due that week for an English class. The baby you heard—I just can’t even think about it. Especially after becoming a mom, it just changes everything. Every time I see an infant or kid in the news for something like that, just, ughh. Even though it happens, you’re right, it’s just something you (or me at least) can only stand to read in fiction.
I love your bit about the Stand by Me movie. I’m sure I’ve already mentioned, but my first memories are dancing on the stage of my dad’s (grandpa’s back then) ancient movie theater to the credits of that movie (which—thankfully—my parents let me watch a hundred thousand times even though I was what, three years old?) while the velvet curtains closed behind me.
That train in the film is officially called "The Goose" and takes tourists around the scenic countryside. In late summer its sparking smoke and brakes ignite a million grass fires so as a kid reporter I was always sent to cover the latest Goose fire. Oh, and the Buster Keaton great train wreck was also filmed there. "The General"
Mine too. I was a tomboy. Still am. Now I consider myself asexual because I had my uterus ripped out. Just saw it again and my God, my childhood with my brothers in Hartford was alot like that......I've never not known who Stephen King was......he's like an uncle who never came to visit.
"I’d been too shy to be a journalist—I’d always imagined I’d have to be pushy and race to the scene and interview people, and the whole reason I liked to write in the first place was to avoid talking to people."
"Consider that fiction writers should begin with the smallest compelling detail and build toward the most important near the end." Like ending with the mass public electrocution event? Damn, that's gonna stay with me for a while.
Years back the New Yorker profiled a great feature writer. Her name escapes me, but for a feature about a man killed by police at a Dunkin Doughnuts, her lead was : "Winston Smith died hungry." That's not the man's name (I forget) but that's one of the best teases I've read.
I was once a Graphic Designer for Bnai Israel. As I setup the monthly newsletter, I wrote a small quip "In Memory of Diane" After the newsletter was published I found out that Diane was not dead. Diane sent in the donation. :/ Thank goodness my boss had a sense of humor and was a generous soul with me and my first design job.
I'm just lucky I found you. I'ma be in Cali at some point. We can do lunch or I can drive you to study hall?????? I'ma be all over meeting people. I'm bringing Maggiemonius
I applied for a job at a small newspaper after getting my English degree in 2016. The office was desolate. The receptionist was part time, like Wed-Fri, so when I got there I didn't see or hear anyone. I got the tour through the newsroom, which was mostly just empty cubicles where papers had been stacked. Fluorescent lights - local journalism was breathing its last.
A couple weeks later I was working at a semi-truck/tanker repair business and learning how to tell stories from the truck drivers who walked in and saw me sitting at the reception desk. I wish I'd asked to learn more of the mechanics' work, but they mostly just liked showing me the trucks that came in with a hole cut through the cab so that the teams of drivers didn't have to stop to use the bathroom.
Worked in a telemarketing sales office moving truckloads of new cars between dealers that now lets me take rejection in stride. It was like if a frat house had started a shady business. Place was nuts. Filled with interesting characters doing all of the drugs. I was ashamed to be associated with those people once I realized I was trying to be someone that I wasnt. Was good at the job, but Im not greedy enough to be a proper American. I made $1400 my first day, and I grew up Grapes of Wrath wood stoves in a dilapidated trailer poor. I got hooked for a while.
Every day I wonder if my paid writing is taking away energy that could be put into fiction, or if its good to be writing no matter what flavor. Its both. Then I dream of weaseling my way into a stipend from some small publisher, or publishing something that sells enough for me to survive while making up ridiculous things to put on paper full time. May be screenplays. May be books. May take me until Im 70. May happen next year. Its gonna happen, unless I step in a puddle near a crane.
Not the first time I heard about a worker in odds with his shady mates in telemarketing sales offices. ( I might be assuming, sorry) I find it fascinating whenever I read about someone frank thrown in grey areas between right and wrong. Can you elaborate on how you were trying to be someone that you wasn't? And what didn't you like about those people?
Chuck's substack is consistently informative. I never noticed the differences among different writing categories until Chuck's explanation here. Chuck makes it easy to understand the concepts he is showing us!
I had to quit a lesser substack where the author encouraged submissions but then harshly berated most of his member submissions as clueless and worthless?! Heck, I can feel discouraged for free, I'm not going to pay a substack to make me feel worse. I will gladly pay to support a good substack that I can enjoy regularly, like Chuck's. He always is encouraging, yet realistic. Chuck's substack is my first stop, every time I sit down at my laptop at home. Did Palahniuk post anything new today?
I used to think Stephen King's "On Writing" was the best book about how to write fiction, but now I think Chuck could give that book some competition just by gathering up the autobiography stories and fiction writing tips that have appeared in this young substack, only 6 months old!
"Consider This: Moments in My Writing Life After Which Everything Was Different" by Chuck Palahniuk, that's the book I momentarily forgot about, this is already good competition for the Stephen King, "On Writing" book! Pardon my dementia for forgetting please.
This post relates to a writing question I am hoping to get thoughts on. Most writing that is appreciated and lauded almost always seems to be . . wordy and of a certain style. For example, I am often forwarded articles from two of the leading magazines famous for their writing.
I can't get through them and inevitably think: are they getting paid by the word? Whereas I get through some novels in a sitting.
I can't tell anymore when people post snippets into comments, often as a response to writing posts, is this any good? It might be good or not so to me but I have no idea what the people who make judgements as to what has merit think. Then there is the issue that much of what is "well written" and - if I suddenly found myself to be an English professor, I'd give it an A-, is again not something I want to read.
So, I then personally go for the weird angle: on the CPR beach tragedy, I looked up how they teach you to keep the best and tried to recreate the nightmare of trying to keep the beat to a song you don't really know for an hour and someone maybe dying from your failure. But it clearly didn't work.
Every post you write is readable. Are you deliberately not being wordy? Avoiding style? You've been at this for a while and don't overthink it?
The more I think about the process of writing, there more garbled my thoughts on the subject get.
I enjoy short, free of flowers writing, which is what initially attracted me to Chuck. Maybe I’m picky, but there’s a lot that bores me within the first two paragraphs. Chuck’s writing never does that to me. So when I found out he teaches writing…um, yes please. Right now I’m working on:
-writing concretely
-figure out how to frame the story
Maybe try to pick a couple lessons for yourself to practice and see if that helps you to not get overwhelmed? It is a lot!!
If it can be of any help, I can tell you what works for me: learn how to dismember and vivisect what you like.
A story, a chapter, a paragraph. A sentence. Break it into pieces and put it back together. The way my nephew builds up a whole Lego, then smashes it down with a kick and rebuilds it again.
There are tons of scenes I’ve read and loved and slapped a bookmark on it. Then I go back to vivisect them. Have I got that nice feeling because it’s in the first person? Why is that period there? It manages to jump smoothly from past tense to present, how does it do that? And so on and so forth.
I’ve always done it with a rustic rule of thumb. Swimming through mud and only trusting my gut feeling. I felt clumsy, moving with a wonky gait. And then Chuck gave me a hand. With his essays, and lessons and everything else he writes. The reason why I loved “Consider This” so much is because I could finally give names to what before was just a gut feeling. Big voice, burnt tongues, text texture and all the other tools you’ll find in it.
What I’m trying to say is that you love or dislike a story if you’re a reader.
When you’re a writer you also know why you love or dislike it.
And you only know why when you start dismembering and vivisecting it. Wordy or minimalist or something else that's your own taste. And you should just trust what you like when you read or write, because if you don't, what's even the point?
Note: In "Consider This" you'll find that memorable story when Tom Spanbauer gives Chuck a book to read. And Chucks reads it, once, twice and tries so much to enjoy it, but he doesn't. And he's conflicted because he knows if the book was given to him there must be something special about it. But no matter how hard he tries, he can't find it.
And then, well, you either already know the story, or I'll let you enjoy how it ends reading the book. Non-Plot spoiler.
You make a good point. Tom would also stop us, mid story, and ask why we'd used a certain word or bit of punctuation. We were expected to have a justification ready, our work had to be that well thought out.
Can I ask you something about a story you wrote? In "Knock, Knock," you wrote the line "My old man, he makes everything into a Big Joke." And I always wondered why you capitalized those last two words.
Artistic license? Also, it seems to trivialize the words the way "air quotation marks" would. The kind of over-sized gestures a bad comedian would use.
That all makes a lot of sense. But for example, is that the approach that The New Yorker and The Atlantic take? Those are universally acclaimed so I'm in no way suggesting they are not deserving of their reputation. I have a difficult time getting through them. Yet, for example, I got through Heartburn in a day.
I know what you mean, Eric--I think... To me, it sometimes feels like there is some literary expectation or set of rules that a new writer is supposed to master before she/he is allowed to write in a style like Chuck's or Nora's. I try to ignore that thought. Other good writing "teachers" I've found include Jack Ketchum and Craig Clevenger. They have some great essays on lit reactor, and Craig hosts a monthly live discussion for writers. Here's the link for the next one if you're interested: http://engagedpatrons.org/EventsExtended.cfm?SiteID=8565&EventID=456942
Yes. That is exactly what I was trying to describe. Hunter Thompson, Jim Thompson, Raymond Chandler, Vonnegut and Chuck. Their books propel forward and have a recognizable style but do not neatly fit into the rules. Thanks for the link!
And there we go, I've just learnt a new thing today.
I thought ABS was only used in my car when I slammed my foot on the brake trying not to hit a tree. Thank you so much.
I know you’ve been doing this forever, but finishing a first draft in just over a month is crazy. It took me a year to finish my first draft. Also, you sent me annual seeds. Any reason you like annuals over perennials?
Do you work full time?
Ha. Yeah, full time employee.
I hear this. First (and until now) only first draft I've ever finished took me two and a half years. And it was only after I got my first journalism job (on a trade magazine primarily published for the British tunnelling community haha) that I managed to a) get that draft finished, and b) realised that I needed to edit out about 50% of it and still it would be considered long and wordy.
How anyone can just sit down and write and get shit done in a short time is beyond me. Nothing but respect and admiration (and envy) for them, but I just can't relate.
Hey, the first novel is usually a quagmire. Mine took four or five years and ran to 850 pages, and was garbage. It gets easier after that, and the rules of Minimalism keep you from going off the rails and including too much.
Thanks for the encouragement. Appreciated.
The time works out to around ten weeks. Several of the biggest plots points had already been written as short stories. Once I had the book's "voice" I was off like a shot because the voice dictates every choice.
And... much of the book came from ideas I've carried around for thirty years or more. Amazing when what seems unrelated suddenly gels into an integrated mass.
This is comforting.
Whenever I write something it stirs around in my head until the last possible minute and then it comes out all in one shot. I can't remember how many papers I wrote after my kids went to bed that were due the next day but I always got As. I know I got this but it's going to take alot of discipline lololol.
They would say I'm schizo all these connections and patterns i have that make my story great. But I want to say I'll be visiting places Gabby visited but not her final resting place because something otherworldly happened there we all saw the same thing and she's not part of my story but part of my journey. I only looked on Substack for you because I was outraged by the people blaming your book for her death????? So there's that.
My favorite texts to translate are the journalism pieces. Creativity meets parsimony. Not sure about the future of either career though. Let's have our fun while we can.
Not a sentence I thought I’d ever say, but congratulations on shitting out that piece of coal, Chuck!
In all seriousness though, congratulations and I hope the remaining process goes as smoothly as possible.
In regards to journalistic writing and collecting data from real life anecdotes, one story that’s stuck with me is one I read about a girl who one day when removing a nipple-piercing happened to notice a piece of clothing-string stuck to the piecing. She took a pair of scissors and cut the sting and then she woke up in the hospital. Turns out the string wasn’t clothing material but was, instead, a nerve. The moment she severed it she passed out and her mother later found her and called an ambulance. No idea how true the story is but it stuck. Maybe in a fictionalized version the person wakes up to find that their hair straightener which was knocked to the floor when they passed out has become grafted to the skin of their leg. And so on.
P.S. Did Charles Baxter’s short story ‘Media Event’ have some influence on your short story ‘Magnificent Filth’, Chuck?
They dont seem related, but your unnerving story reminded me of an ex who hit a horse at high speed. Then called her father for help, who yelled at her for crying. Poor gal.
"unnerving". Heh, nice.
This caused me to gag!
In terms of crowdseeding the potential of the story this is great news.
Just to be clear, I was complimenting - you got a physical reaction from just a few lines of writing!
Thanks! And now to move on to getting people to faint...
I will have to reread that. The real inspiration for 'Filth' was a British book about manias and mass hysteria, called "Scared to Death." It covered the tragic advent of 'facilitated communication' and how it wrecked the lives of people.
Definitely a more bleak but also equally interesting source of inspiration. I asked about ‘Media Event’ primarily because the main character refers to themself by their full name, George Elliot Christianson, Jr., constantly and that, combined with some of the more “verbose” elements of the story, put me in mind of ‘Filth’
Can't wait for the new novel.
Being a (wasted) bio major I only took the required English classes and one forgettable creative writing class where my work was criticized as too revolting or creepy for readers. No journalism. So any writing I wanted to learn later had to be through expensive online classes and things like this substack. I took one class where I was told after was done writing the first draft, but before I went in to edit, I was to write a two page biography of each character including their full name, dob, job, education, relationship to the main character, etc. I took this idea in a different direction by writing each character’s obituary as it not only chronicles all this things but also how and when they die and as I am their god I know their sins. It’s been one of the most entertaining and enlightening parts of the process having my own “Book of Life” so to speak for my characters.
As an English major I always got a kick out of science or engineering students taking even a 100-level English or writing course as a requirement, expecting to ace it and bolster their average, then winding up with a C or D lol
Oh I passed with A’s and B’s. I just wanted to say how critical they were of my work. I think I was meant to do both.
I shouldn’t put that it was a wasted degree. Education is always worth it and I enjoyed learning. Just that the degree isn’t paying the bills as it’s goes for most people I know. I didnt make it into medical school or physician assistant school as my grades weren’t perfect. (That’s a requirement these days) and they said my essays weren’t good enough. (Couldn’t afford to have someone write it for me as most upper crust aholes did. I know for a fact an acquaintance of mine did this.) I made it into NP school and discovered that it would cost me another 78,000 I couldnt afford to borrow as I already owe like 50,0000. So now I’m waitlisted to become an RN cheap effective and it will get me into where I want to be.
I know of tons of companies and organizations that would love someone like you: a BA science background plus a writer. The RN will be fantastic and meaningful of course - and you will, I hope, be writing about it, and writing, as you do this important work. All to say I work with plenty of writers who studied science first and ended up being extremely successful. Whatever your path is, you will be too. (Btw: Boo to any lazy readers who said an essay wasn't "good enough" - that is usually shorthand for not being able to articulate what exactly they wanted instead.)
And also, you could not be more spot on about the "essay industry" that exists to "support" kids with these essays. It penalizes the non-trustfunded, which most of us are.
So in MA my 1 month certification as a CNA from 20 years ago is worth more than a BS in Biology. Go figure? The world of academic degrees upside down right now. One place dealing exclusively in development of corona vaccine wanted to pay me “up to 15.00 an hour,” as a lane tech. Shorthand for “were underpaying you and we know it and you probably won’t get a raise like ever.” Either way I like my present work with elder folk. They give me more/better ideas than any other job I I’ve had.
When science and souls meet- you've got work that is good and right. I am glad to know there are people like you in this life.
Now there’s an idea—writing the characters’ obituaries. !!
Dad and I do breakfast on Thursdays, and this past week, I was just talking to him about this. About how I’d been too shy to be a journalist—I’d always imagined I’d have to be pushy and race to the scene and interview people, and the whole reason I liked to write in the first place was to avoid talking to people. I would have loved to have gotten stuck with Obituaries, truly.
Looking back now, I think it could have gotten me a lot farther with writing a lot quicker. Should probably take a few online journalism classes—the beauty of living in the future—and see what skills I can add to my toolbox. I think teasing out a story is hard for even non-journalists. It is for me!
I understand about being stunned by sounds. In college, I heard the victim of a car accident scream outside my window in a way that I was sure her passenger had died. It shook me so much I included it in an essay due that week for an English class. The baby you heard—I just can’t even think about it. Especially after becoming a mom, it just changes everything. Every time I see an infant or kid in the news for something like that, just, ughh. Even though it happens, you’re right, it’s just something you (or me at least) can only stand to read in fiction.
I love your bit about the Stand by Me movie. I’m sure I’ve already mentioned, but my first memories are dancing on the stage of my dad’s (grandpa’s back then) ancient movie theater to the credits of that movie (which—thankfully—my parents let me watch a hundred thousand times even though I was what, three years old?) while the velvet curtains closed behind me.
Congrats, Kerri.
And congrats to you, Chuck, on your new novel.
I mentioned Stand By me in the comments of the last post. Most important film of my childhood.
I saw! ❤️ it.
That train in the film is officially called "The Goose" and takes tourists around the scenic countryside. In late summer its sparking smoke and brakes ignite a million grass fires so as a kid reporter I was always sent to cover the latest Goose fire. Oh, and the Buster Keaton great train wreck was also filmed there. "The General"
Mine too. I was a tomboy. Still am. Now I consider myself asexual because I had my uterus ripped out. Just saw it again and my God, my childhood with my brothers in Hartford was alot like that......I've never not known who Stephen King was......he's like an uncle who never came to visit.
"Like an uncle who never came to visit." Love that! Ha!
Ty for the feedback. Seems like I intimidate people so feel free to kill me with constructive criticism.
"I’d been too shy to be a journalist—I’d always imagined I’d have to be pushy and race to the scene and interview people, and the whole reason I liked to write in the first place was to avoid talking to people."
^This! I know exactly what you mean!
Congrats on the new first draft, Chuck! What did you learn writing this book? What stands out the most?
Geez, I won't know that until it's too late to cancel the project.
Best answer ever.
"Consider that fiction writers should begin with the smallest compelling detail and build toward the most important near the end." Like ending with the mass public electrocution event? Damn, that's gonna stay with me for a while.
Years back the New Yorker profiled a great feature writer. Her name escapes me, but for a feature about a man killed by police at a Dunkin Doughnuts, her lead was : "Winston Smith died hungry." That's not the man's name (I forget) but that's one of the best teases I've read.
Are you talking about this profile of Edna Buchanan from 1986? https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/1986/02/17/covering-the-cops
YES! My apologies, it was Church's not Dunkin. But that's the article.
I was once a Graphic Designer for Bnai Israel. As I setup the monthly newsletter, I wrote a small quip "In Memory of Diane" After the newsletter was published I found out that Diane was not dead. Diane sent in the donation. :/ Thank goodness my boss had a sense of humor and was a generous soul with me and my first design job.
I love your designs. If I ever step on a red carpet if it can't be McQueen it's Crassy Ass for me ..... lololol
LOL. The Lace & Bow Rebellion is my baby! ;P We use cheap and crass to our advantage.
I'm just lucky I found you. I'ma be in Cali at some point. We can do lunch or I can drive you to study hall?????? I'ma be all over meeting people. I'm bringing Maggiemonius
I applied for a job at a small newspaper after getting my English degree in 2016. The office was desolate. The receptionist was part time, like Wed-Fri, so when I got there I didn't see or hear anyone. I got the tour through the newsroom, which was mostly just empty cubicles where papers had been stacked. Fluorescent lights - local journalism was breathing its last.
A couple weeks later I was working at a semi-truck/tanker repair business and learning how to tell stories from the truck drivers who walked in and saw me sitting at the reception desk. I wish I'd asked to learn more of the mechanics' work, but they mostly just liked showing me the trucks that came in with a hole cut through the cab so that the teams of drivers didn't have to stop to use the bathroom.
Worked in a telemarketing sales office moving truckloads of new cars between dealers that now lets me take rejection in stride. It was like if a frat house had started a shady business. Place was nuts. Filled with interesting characters doing all of the drugs. I was ashamed to be associated with those people once I realized I was trying to be someone that I wasnt. Was good at the job, but Im not greedy enough to be a proper American. I made $1400 my first day, and I grew up Grapes of Wrath wood stoves in a dilapidated trailer poor. I got hooked for a while.
Every day I wonder if my paid writing is taking away energy that could be put into fiction, or if its good to be writing no matter what flavor. Its both. Then I dream of weaseling my way into a stipend from some small publisher, or publishing something that sells enough for me to survive while making up ridiculous things to put on paper full time. May be screenplays. May be books. May take me until Im 70. May happen next year. Its gonna happen, unless I step in a puddle near a crane.
Not the first time I heard about a worker in odds with his shady mates in telemarketing sales offices. ( I might be assuming, sorry) I find it fascinating whenever I read about someone frank thrown in grey areas between right and wrong. Can you elaborate on how you were trying to be someone that you wasn't? And what didn't you like about those people?
The students are probably thinking Someday my Print will come.
Congrats to Kerri and Chuck.
Chuck's substack is consistently informative. I never noticed the differences among different writing categories until Chuck's explanation here. Chuck makes it easy to understand the concepts he is showing us!
I had to quit a lesser substack where the author encouraged submissions but then harshly berated most of his member submissions as clueless and worthless?! Heck, I can feel discouraged for free, I'm not going to pay a substack to make me feel worse. I will gladly pay to support a good substack that I can enjoy regularly, like Chuck's. He always is encouraging, yet realistic. Chuck's substack is my first stop, every time I sit down at my laptop at home. Did Palahniuk post anything new today?
I used to think Stephen King's "On Writing" was the best book about how to write fiction, but now I think Chuck could give that book some competition just by gathering up the autobiography stories and fiction writing tips that have appeared in this young substack, only 6 months old!
Absolutely agree with you there
"Consider This: Moments in My Writing Life After Which Everything Was Different" by Chuck Palahniuk, that's the book I momentarily forgot about, this is already good competition for the Stephen King, "On Writing" book! Pardon my dementia for forgetting please.
Excited to hear about the new novel! Congrats! <3
This post relates to a writing question I am hoping to get thoughts on. Most writing that is appreciated and lauded almost always seems to be . . wordy and of a certain style. For example, I am often forwarded articles from two of the leading magazines famous for their writing.
I can't get through them and inevitably think: are they getting paid by the word? Whereas I get through some novels in a sitting.
I can't tell anymore when people post snippets into comments, often as a response to writing posts, is this any good? It might be good or not so to me but I have no idea what the people who make judgements as to what has merit think. Then there is the issue that much of what is "well written" and - if I suddenly found myself to be an English professor, I'd give it an A-, is again not something I want to read.
So, I then personally go for the weird angle: on the CPR beach tragedy, I looked up how they teach you to keep the best and tried to recreate the nightmare of trying to keep the beat to a song you don't really know for an hour and someone maybe dying from your failure. But it clearly didn't work.
Every post you write is readable. Are you deliberately not being wordy? Avoiding style? You've been at this for a while and don't overthink it?
The more I think about the process of writing, there more garbled my thoughts on the subject get.
I enjoy short, free of flowers writing, which is what initially attracted me to Chuck. Maybe I’m picky, but there’s a lot that bores me within the first two paragraphs. Chuck’s writing never does that to me. So when I found out he teaches writing…um, yes please. Right now I’m working on:
-writing concretely
-figure out how to frame the story
Maybe try to pick a couple lessons for yourself to practice and see if that helps you to not get overwhelmed? It is a lot!!
If it can be of any help, I can tell you what works for me: learn how to dismember and vivisect what you like.
A story, a chapter, a paragraph. A sentence. Break it into pieces and put it back together. The way my nephew builds up a whole Lego, then smashes it down with a kick and rebuilds it again.
There are tons of scenes I’ve read and loved and slapped a bookmark on it. Then I go back to vivisect them. Have I got that nice feeling because it’s in the first person? Why is that period there? It manages to jump smoothly from past tense to present, how does it do that? And so on and so forth.
I’ve always done it with a rustic rule of thumb. Swimming through mud and only trusting my gut feeling. I felt clumsy, moving with a wonky gait. And then Chuck gave me a hand. With his essays, and lessons and everything else he writes. The reason why I loved “Consider This” so much is because I could finally give names to what before was just a gut feeling. Big voice, burnt tongues, text texture and all the other tools you’ll find in it.
What I’m trying to say is that you love or dislike a story if you’re a reader.
When you’re a writer you also know why you love or dislike it.
And you only know why when you start dismembering and vivisecting it. Wordy or minimalist or something else that's your own taste. And you should just trust what you like when you read or write, because if you don't, what's even the point?
Note: In "Consider This" you'll find that memorable story when Tom Spanbauer gives Chuck a book to read. And Chucks reads it, once, twice and tries so much to enjoy it, but he doesn't. And he's conflicted because he knows if the book was given to him there must be something special about it. But no matter how hard he tries, he can't find it.
And then, well, you either already know the story, or I'll let you enjoy how it ends reading the book. Non-Plot spoiler.
Good advice. "Consider This" is a must-read--right up there with Stephen King's "On Writing." More useful even.
Ben and Meagan, thanks! Both helpful and appreciated.
You make a good point. Tom would also stop us, mid story, and ask why we'd used a certain word or bit of punctuation. We were expected to have a justification ready, our work had to be that well thought out.
Can I ask you something about a story you wrote? In "Knock, Knock," you wrote the line "My old man, he makes everything into a Big Joke." And I always wondered why you capitalized those last two words.
Artistic license? Also, it seems to trivialize the words the way "air quotation marks" would. The kind of over-sized gestures a bad comedian would use.
That all makes a lot of sense. But for example, is that the approach that The New Yorker and The Atlantic take? Those are universally acclaimed so I'm in no way suggesting they are not deserving of their reputation. I have a difficult time getting through them. Yet, for example, I got through Heartburn in a day.
I know what you mean, Eric--I think... To me, it sometimes feels like there is some literary expectation or set of rules that a new writer is supposed to master before she/he is allowed to write in a style like Chuck's or Nora's. I try to ignore that thought. Other good writing "teachers" I've found include Jack Ketchum and Craig Clevenger. They have some great essays on lit reactor, and Craig hosts a monthly live discussion for writers. Here's the link for the next one if you're interested: http://engagedpatrons.org/EventsExtended.cfm?SiteID=8565&EventID=456942
Yes. That is exactly what I was trying to describe. Hunter Thompson, Jim Thompson, Raymond Chandler, Vonnegut and Chuck. Their books propel forward and have a recognizable style but do not neatly fit into the rules. Thanks for the link!
Maegan! I’ve also haunted a few of Craig Clevenger’s monthly discussions!
Sweet! I wish they recorded them so I could watch the ones I’ve missed. I’ve quickly searched for a link but didn’t see anything.