I'd wager that readers feel wary of reading 400+ pages and finding no satisfaction. If a person is going to risk time on a new writer, that reader will more readily risk thirty minutes instead of days and days.
My first inclination was to write a series of shorts. But then a novel and a novella came pouring out. Both started as shorts. I was just saying that I need to go back to that. Once Im exhausted from revising this beast, or finished, or both, I will.
This is really helpful to hear. I’ve had a novel idea in my head and the thought of writing a whole book is daunting, but it makes sense to start with one story and get that hit of accomplishment.
Thank you for diving deeper into this! It’s so refreshing to think of it like I already have 9 parts of a whole instead of a collection of short stories. I love this so much.
After reading Fight Club, I trekked to the bookstore in search of more of your work. I walked out with Haunted. I had no idea where it fell on the sales list - it just intrigued me. Plus, it has a glow-in-the-dark cover.
I'm writing a bio lololol and the hardest thing is describing me. And I want advice but who do you ask I mean when there isn't one person that really knows you....
So far I got
Karie Anne is the most prolific serial killer
or
If you say Karie Anne in a mirror 3 times fast the OG Karen appears!
I had to Google wtf it was tho so that's progress
Procrastithunking may take a lifetime on this
Wait also got, Karie Anne is the thought child of Margaret Mitchell and Stephen King.
Unless I make writing a bio a contest and I give away a dog or something.......
Back to writing the story though cuz I gotta be ready for the 14th!
Yeah that was so true of me when I first married the Millionaire. I got to thinking money was power and power was I could ask for a manager and get whatever I want. There was one tipsy event when Christmas shopping with probably a $1000 in toys I thought I was too good even for Toys R Us. Entitled should remind themselves they live in an area of Connecticut where there's nothing else and Christmas. I mean I felt like I was entitled and it wasn't even my own. That's one reason Karma keeps coming at me.
But I thought someone was picking on me when it first came around. Ive got that many haters so I owned it from the start lol
You once said that your favorite part of the novel writing process is printing out all the chapters and laying them out in stacks on your kitchen table then shuffling the order around to see which arrangement would be most impactful. When I first heard that, I couldn't fathom how that could happen. How a story could get chopped up and rearranged and still make sense. I've written four novels (that sit in a drawer) and couldn't imagine them holding together under that paper film editing process. So that's why I threw aside all 40k words I'd written for my current book. My process needed reprocessed.
And my writing hasn't been the same in the best way possible.
Now, if it's a short story or a chapter, I find myself writing more nonlinearly. Jumping forward, backward whenever my brain clicks to something. Rinse repeat until I've filled in all the blanks. And I love writing all over again. Anyway, this is a long-winded comment to say, when I switched to writing short stories instead of solely focusing on novels, when I stopped writing in a straight line, my writer brain thanked me. And now I'm thanking you.
You're welcome. Take a look at Tobias Wolff's collections. He usually does a Chekhov trick where almost the entire story is set-up for a tiny, intense anecdote at the end. The story "Bullet in the Brain" is typical. Most of it is a man trapped in a bank robbery. But as a bullet passes through his head it triggers cascading memories that reveal his entire life in a couple pages.
It's an interesting form I've always wanted to try.
Maybe I'm totally off-base, but I think the market for short stories is very different for established and novice writers.
Also, I feel like if you write something like YA, it's almost impossible to gain traction with short stories. Almost all of the "A-list" journals are MFA-oriented and tend to publish more literary-fiction-ish stories. And even a long list of publications in literary journals doesn't seem to reliably translate into success landing an agent or selling a manuscript.
Currently working on a collection; aim to have it completed by next year. Did some math a while ago to see where I am and where I want to be in terms of page length. I’m about 1/6th of the way there -- slow but steady I guess.
You know, I did the same years ago. Started writing tons of short stories and then I wondered, “How many will I need for a collection?” And those numbers, word count, stories, they became a woodworm chewing my ideas. My editing.
Of course this is my very personal opinion, Brandan, but I’d suggest just to have fun with it. Laugh and cry when you write. Giggle and cringe. The only thing I personally always focus on is just one: finish stuff.
That sounds silly, or trivial but it’s not. It forces your mind to find solutions, workarounds. It let your writing muscles get fitter. It also helps you understanding where to draw a line with the editing and hop on the next idea.
But again, that’s just me. I’d love to read some of your pieces. You publishing them on your Substack, yeah?
I wholeheartedly agree with you -- more than anything I want to write because I enjoy it. And -- though I think I may have “Kafka syndrome” -- I know I do enjoy it because, otherwise, I don’t think I would repeatedly return to it. It’s doing what you’ve said that’s important: finishing it. That’s what I aim to do. This project of mine, even if it goes nowhere, I’ll at least be able to know that I committed to it and completed it.
And yeah, there are some (admittedly rough and typo ridden) pieces on my ‘stack. Woe and behold?
If I send you a worn copy of Haunted, would you sign it and send it back? It would instantly become a family heirloom to be read fire side on holidays. Also read my substack...
I got it. I feel grateful that you responded at all. Thank you, and I look forward to continuing with your substack. It really is a joy, and it may just be my latest obsession.
Phoenix was commissioned by an online service called Byliner. My editor was Amy Grace Lloyd, who also edited my work for Playboy. If you're looking for a good editor, look up Amy. She's excellent.
On a side note, a few weeks ago I was running this half-marathon. And maybe it was the lack of oxygen, maybe my mind wandering away to avoid leg cramps, but by the 9th mile the idea for a novel hit me. Working on it right now. And yup, following the short story approach you suggested, Chuck.
Just because, like you said, the burden of plotting something in an original way upfront, hiding hints and references without knowing what they are yet, planning everything on a graph, well, it can be quite unbearable.
So yeah, pivotal short story approach it is. For the fun of it.
On a graph! Linear notes on what happens next, then what happens, what’s he thinking... and so on. You sound like a serial plotter like me, thank goodness! I’m not alone!
This plot has been in my head and on my pages for 2 years now but you’re right - unbearable is the right word for this method. I have been writing short stories but unrelated ones. Breaking my novel into short stories with the same characters could be the answer. But is it just another way of writing each scene on its own? The ones I’ve already linearly planned? Or do I scrap the whole thing and just write the major plot points, the ones that are the stickiest in my mind? Ok, have I answered my own question? Thank you all and Chuck. 🙏🏻
I'd wager that readers feel wary of reading 400+ pages and finding no satisfaction. If a person is going to risk time on a new writer, that reader will more readily risk thirty minutes instead of days and days.
Oh yeah, that's a great shout, The Safety of Objects is right up there in my top 5 short story collections!
The Barbie doll story is my favorite. The ending breaks hearts.
My first inclination was to write a series of shorts. But then a novel and a novella came pouring out. Both started as shorts. I was just saying that I need to go back to that. Once Im exhausted from revising this beast, or finished, or both, I will.
Thank you! How many words is a 20 minute story? 2.000?
2,500 at a not rushed pace
Consider that if you get a lot of laughs that slows the reading time.
Deep sigh
Yesssss. So happy to read this.
This is really helpful to hear. I’ve had a novel idea in my head and the thought of writing a whole book is daunting, but it makes sense to start with one story and get that hit of accomplishment.
“If someone likes a book or film, they really only like about ten percent of it.”
Something I’ve always felt, but never translated into words. Great read, Chuck. Thank you so much.
Ohh this was just the fuel that I needed today. Thanks Chuck!
Thank you for diving deeper into this! It’s so refreshing to think of it like I already have 9 parts of a whole instead of a collection of short stories. I love this so much.
After reading Fight Club, I trekked to the bookstore in search of more of your work. I walked out with Haunted. I had no idea where it fell on the sales list - it just intrigued me. Plus, it has a glow-in-the-dark cover.
Also, I am very much a fan of short stories.
And your puzzle analogy is brilliant.
😊
I'm writing a bio lololol and the hardest thing is describing me. And I want advice but who do you ask I mean when there isn't one person that really knows you....
So far I got
Karie Anne is the most prolific serial killer
or
If you say Karie Anne in a mirror 3 times fast the OG Karen appears!
I had to Google wtf it was tho so that's progress
Procrastithunking may take a lifetime on this
Wait also got, Karie Anne is the thought child of Margaret Mitchell and Stephen King.
Unless I make writing a bio a contest and I give away a dog or something.......
Back to writing the story though cuz I gotta be ready for the 14th!
I like your third option 😁
Yeah that was so true of me when I first married the Millionaire. I got to thinking money was power and power was I could ask for a manager and get whatever I want. There was one tipsy event when Christmas shopping with probably a $1000 in toys I thought I was too good even for Toys R Us. Entitled should remind themselves they live in an area of Connecticut where there's nothing else and Christmas. I mean I felt like I was entitled and it wasn't even my own. That's one reason Karma keeps coming at me.
But I thought someone was picking on me when it first came around. Ive got that many haters so I owned it from the start lol
You once said that your favorite part of the novel writing process is printing out all the chapters and laying them out in stacks on your kitchen table then shuffling the order around to see which arrangement would be most impactful. When I first heard that, I couldn't fathom how that could happen. How a story could get chopped up and rearranged and still make sense. I've written four novels (that sit in a drawer) and couldn't imagine them holding together under that paper film editing process. So that's why I threw aside all 40k words I'd written for my current book. My process needed reprocessed.
And my writing hasn't been the same in the best way possible.
Now, if it's a short story or a chapter, I find myself writing more nonlinearly. Jumping forward, backward whenever my brain clicks to something. Rinse repeat until I've filled in all the blanks. And I love writing all over again. Anyway, this is a long-winded comment to say, when I switched to writing short stories instead of solely focusing on novels, when I stopped writing in a straight line, my writer brain thanked me. And now I'm thanking you.
You're welcome. Take a look at Tobias Wolff's collections. He usually does a Chekhov trick where almost the entire story is set-up for a tiny, intense anecdote at the end. The story "Bullet in the Brain" is typical. Most of it is a man trapped in a bank robbery. But as a bullet passes through his head it triggers cascading memories that reveal his entire life in a couple pages.
It's an interesting form I've always wanted to try.
Maybe I'm totally off-base, but I think the market for short stories is very different for established and novice writers.
Also, I feel like if you write something like YA, it's almost impossible to gain traction with short stories. Almost all of the "A-list" journals are MFA-oriented and tend to publish more literary-fiction-ish stories. And even a long list of publications in literary journals doesn't seem to reliably translate into success landing an agent or selling a manuscript.
Currently working on a collection; aim to have it completed by next year. Did some math a while ago to see where I am and where I want to be in terms of page length. I’m about 1/6th of the way there -- slow but steady I guess.
You know, I did the same years ago. Started writing tons of short stories and then I wondered, “How many will I need for a collection?” And those numbers, word count, stories, they became a woodworm chewing my ideas. My editing.
Of course this is my very personal opinion, Brandan, but I’d suggest just to have fun with it. Laugh and cry when you write. Giggle and cringe. The only thing I personally always focus on is just one: finish stuff.
That sounds silly, or trivial but it’s not. It forces your mind to find solutions, workarounds. It let your writing muscles get fitter. It also helps you understanding where to draw a line with the editing and hop on the next idea.
But again, that’s just me. I’d love to read some of your pieces. You publishing them on your Substack, yeah?
I wholeheartedly agree with you -- more than anything I want to write because I enjoy it. And -- though I think I may have “Kafka syndrome” -- I know I do enjoy it because, otherwise, I don’t think I would repeatedly return to it. It’s doing what you’ve said that’s important: finishing it. That’s what I aim to do. This project of mine, even if it goes nowhere, I’ll at least be able to know that I committed to it and completed it.
And yeah, there are some (admittedly rough and typo ridden) pieces on my ‘stack. Woe and behold?
If I send you a worn copy of Haunted, would you sign it and send it back? It would instantly become a family heirloom to be read fire side on holidays. Also read my substack...
Love Josh
I hesitate to say yes because that might trigger a lot of similar requests. Maybe when I'm less busy.
I got it. I feel grateful that you responded at all. Thank you, and I look forward to continuing with your substack. It really is a joy, and it may just be my latest obsession.
Ah I love short stories, the best can be such a short sharp gut punch.
Also my head is telling me that Chuck's short story Phoenix was released as a kindle single, but I could be wrong.
And yes, that's exactly how I do jigsaws! Good to hear its technique applied to novel writing.
Phoenix was commissioned by an online service called Byliner. My editor was Amy Grace Lloyd, who also edited my work for Playboy. If you're looking for a good editor, look up Amy. She's excellent.
On a side note, a few weeks ago I was running this half-marathon. And maybe it was the lack of oxygen, maybe my mind wandering away to avoid leg cramps, but by the 9th mile the idea for a novel hit me. Working on it right now. And yup, following the short story approach you suggested, Chuck.
Just because, like you said, the burden of plotting something in an original way upfront, hiding hints and references without knowing what they are yet, planning everything on a graph, well, it can be quite unbearable.
So yeah, pivotal short story approach it is. For the fun of it.
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
On a graph! Linear notes on what happens next, then what happens, what’s he thinking... and so on. You sound like a serial plotter like me, thank goodness! I’m not alone!
This plot has been in my head and on my pages for 2 years now but you’re right - unbearable is the right word for this method. I have been writing short stories but unrelated ones. Breaking my novel into short stories with the same characters could be the answer. But is it just another way of writing each scene on its own? The ones I’ve already linearly planned? Or do I scrap the whole thing and just write the major plot points, the ones that are the stickiest in my mind? Ok, have I answered my own question? Thank you all and Chuck. 🙏🏻