Crazy to think Alister Crowley’s wardrobe would one day be bought at auctions by the author Chuck Palahniuk and subsequently sent to various people across the globe. An interesting series of events or the final stages of a plan put into motion decades ago in an effort to spread chaos across the world via the gifting of cursed trinkets? Guess we’ll find out in retrospect.
A question, Chuck. Do you think there’s going to be a shift in the way books get published in the upcoming years as opposed to how it’s traditionally been? I know you say that getting an agent and finding a publisher is part of the fun, and it may have been that way in the nineties, but it just seems like such a futile effort today. There’s so much going on in the culture right now and they way in which publishing houses operate make me think that there’s going to be a lot more self-published books, or whatever, that gain attention and then may subsequently get picked up by publishing houses in the future. I’m not even remotely connected to the publishing world in any way shape or form but I already have a bleak view of it. The shit that’s recently been pulled over here in the UK with some publishers doing a ministry of Truth from ‘1984’ and editing Roald Dahl’s books and Ian Fleming’s Bond books to be more in line with current zeitgeist values (go ahead and take a guess which) was a kind of final nail in the coffin for me. Currently of the mindset where I honestly don’t know if I’d just opt for self-publishing instead of going for the traditional agent and publishing house route if I was in the position.
Oh dear. This is a big, big question. Even now the agencies are combining to circle the wagons. CAA just merged with ICM. I'll leave this thread open all day and come back to it. Note that this year marks the first year since 1987 that vinyl record albums have outsold CDs. Things run in cycles, and people love their objects.
It's not a question of people not wanting to read books. It's a question of writing books that people will want to read. More soon...
But what if the books that people want to read aren’t getting published because they don’t fall in line with the publishing houses’ “values”?
And another thing -- this question open for everyone -- can you name even one author born post 2000? Like the time should be ripe for my generation to be seeing the emergence of it’s own Ellises, Welshes, Palahniuks, etc -- especially given the wealth of topics to write about in the shit show that is the current zeitgeist -- but it’s complete radio silence. Why is that?
Every trend passes. It makes money until the market is flooded with lesser versions -- the story of the rise and fall of chick lit. Look ahead to when publishers or readers want something radically different. What can books do that no other medium can? Play on those strengths. Part of coaching writers is showing them how dynamic and bold books can be.
Most people use books as a comfort, but when books become too bland, will you have something radically different to bring to market?
It's interesting, but a few years ago the Wall Street Journal featured a big story called "Guess Who's Reading?" The premise was that Millennials were defining themselves as the not-MTV generation. Thus they were turning to books and writing. Newer forms of social media might've derailed that prediction.
And I'd always imagined the Harry Potter generation would mature to want thrilling adult books. But that might take a few years. There tends to be a lapse between childhood reading and adult reading. I speak from experience.
Make Something Up got published in 2017. Some publishers are on the censorship tip, but not all.
My quandary is whether its worth the trouble of paying an agent and a publisher. You can serialize right here, slowly build an audience, and later pay for a print run of physical books to sell along with other merch.
Would love to have the validation of being published, but the big question is whether theyre willing to put any marketing money/effort behind a new author?
But Chuck’s been an established author extraordinaire since ‘96. I’m talking about NEW voices -- new blood, so to speak. But even so, that’s not to say established authors are having it much easier. Ellis’ new book, ‘The Shards’, is the first book of his to published by another author since 1992 when ‘American Psycho’ came out. Apparently there were some people at Picador -- the publisher who picked up ‘AP’ and who he’s been with since then -- who weren’t particularly fond of his new book, so he moved to a new publisher: Swift Press. Also, prior to coming out in print, the book was serialised on his podcast (Like ‘Greener Pastures’ on here). Ellis and Swift Press also had an interesting deal when it came to the publication of the book which, if I recall correctly, I believe Ellis said he believes will become the new standard. Instead of the lofty advance that a publisher would usually pay for a book, the publishing house (Swift Press) and the author (Bret Easton Ellis) went 50/50 on the costs of advertising.
As for movie scripts -- do you know what the percentage of scripts getting bought and actually made into a movie is in Hollywood, man? If not, here’s a clue: single digit.
And there's always a path no one's tried. Back when Christopher Paolini was a teenager and wrote the Eragon series he'd drive on long tours to distant towns. Dressed as a dragon -- he was a kid, himself -- he'd ask to entertain in elementary schools. During his show he'd pitch a book event that same night. Kids from every school in the area would stampede to the night's event... and he's sold 20+ million books. Before a publisher signed him, he'd already built his readership.
When then-nobody Doug Coupland wrote 'Generation X' his publisher had no advertising budget, so they faxed a sheet of paper to every fax machine in North America. Each sheet bore just a huge X. This would be illegal now, but it was legal then. It built a giant buzz for the book. Millions of X's day after day.
I never wrote 'Fight Club' to get it published. I wrote it to punish people who'd rejected my earlier work. And there are a few bold people still out there in publishing, looking to sign new voices and built a stronger list.
Absolutely adore that it was written out of spite. And, gun to my head, Im taking Invisible Monsters.
Continue to focus on using substack. People are stumbling upon it already. Around the time my confidence matches my optimism, industry people will come knocking.
Ellis told me that the publisher was paying for the tour, and calling the shots.
I've always thought that an agency with a good PR team could replace most publishers. The editing and packaging are so easy now. It's getting the book onto shelves that needs work.
Do not under estimate the publicity/distribution clout of a trad publisher. Without it you are swimming upstream with an anvil tied to your feet! It can be fine if you’re clever and completely social media savvy…but even then it leaves you no time to do the part you love—write.
This is a totally valid point, and absolutely true. However, with so many internet success stories on various platforms, I believe its just a question of having a unique voice, and persistence. Plus a publisher could find you that way as well. And if you already have an audience, you have some negotiation power.
Ultimately, its silly for me to mull this over right now. No choice but to stay focused on improving the writing.
I think there may also be an element of luck to this type of thing though. Using “Fight Club” as an example, I don’t think the original hardback release had much in terms of advertising and it wasn’t really until the film release in ‘99 that it finally got the recognition it deserved and copies of it started selling like hotcakes. I think Chuck even said that some of the hardback copies from the original run were sitting in a storage facility somewhere and were about to be mulched but we’re saved by the release of the movie. So -- going back to the notion of luck -- David Fincher somehow gets hold of a copy of “Fight Club” between the years 1996-1999, despite the lack of advertising and so on, likes it and wants to buy the film rights to it. He eventually does, and the rest is history. Or, putting it another way, a series of coincidences and events transpire which ultimately put a copy of the book in the hands of a filmmaker who’s just had big commercial and critical success with his previous film (“Se7en”) and this ends up being the biggest piece of advertising for the book despite the book not getting the best advertising nor commercial success upon its publication.
There was a scout for 20th Century Fox, Raymond Bongiovani. He was dying, but had read 'Fight Club' as a manuscript. He urged Fox to option it, and at his funeral Variety reported "Raymond's last wish was for the gritty Chuck Palahniuk novel Fight Club to become a movie." It was mentioned in the eulogy, even.
Your job is to write something that creates that kind of passion in others.
And, no, few of the hardcover books sold in 1996. The movie was a failure until its release on DVD. It has been a long, slow slog.
Bud. Read this book (which, in my opinion, is horribly, amateurishly written but has been HUGELY successful) and tell me anything you will ever write will be more "offensive" than this.
This whole "cancel culture" boogeyman is severely overblown. Dave Chappelle just won a f'ing Grammy for god's sake. Write what you're gonna write. Some people will love it, some people will hate it. No one is going to actually punish you for doing it.
Honestly, I think these claims of censorship are pure marketing. Diabolical, but genius -- because they actually work. Every time a Jordan Peterson or a Dave Chappelle says, "Oh no! Cancel culture is trying to get me!" people get all fired up and rush to defend them, thus giving them exponentially more attention than they would otherwise have gotten. Hell, the one and only context in which I even heard Ricky Gervais's latest comedy special mentioned was an article about how he made an anti-trans joke, got criticized for it, then cried about cancel culture. As far as I'm aware, that's the majority of attention his special managed to get.
These guys know exactly what they're doing. And it drives me absolutely bonkers watching people fall for it over and over and over again while they laugh all the way to the bank.
Yeah, I'm REALLY not a fan (obviously). And not because it's too shocking or disturbing or whatever. If anything, I felt like it wasn't disturbing enough, because there was no character development, so nothing anyone did made sense. I felt like the author sat down and thought, "Ok, what's the most shocking thing I can come up with? Kid crucifying his infant brother just to watch him die? Perfect! Throw it in, even though it has no bearing whatsoever on the story. Right -- now, what else can I throw on the pile?" *exploding head emoji*
Chuck, in the intro to 'Moments in my writing life... ': "if you came to me and asked me to teach you everything I'm able, I'd tell you that the publishing industry is on life support. Bret Easton Ellis tells me the novel is no longer even a blip in the culture. You're too late. Piracy has destroyed the profits. Readers have all moved on to watching films and playing computer games. I'd say, "Kid , go home! ""
Hey Chuck, in Fight Club, when you wrote lines like, "I am Joe's...BLANK," is that an example of chorus? Started reading it yesterday and I'm halfway through. I LOVE the fact that you aren't afraid of repetition and single word paragraphs.
That's a chorus, but mostly it's a standarized way of externalizing emotion without using some bland word like angry, sad, jealous. It expresses the emotion in a unique way that's appropriate for the character.
Im just now reading Call Out, and I happened to read a story about a shooter today to the sub-substackers. First person though. Leading up. Jolly Ranchers and Salmon Patties for everyone! Then we can all take turns on the trash can.
Whoa!! Thanks, Chuck!! All of my headlines were written while locked away in a conference room at work.
Congratulations!
That is THE best place to write fiction. And your boss thinks you're taking copious notes. A win-win.
Send Dennis your address.
Just sent!
A wake of zombie deer and liches rise as the package is passed from one mail carrier to the next.
Haha! And they don't even know that you're writing, "...a copy of a copy of a copy."
This one is really good. It looks like an Onion Headline, tbh
I still think you're going to be able to wear that with a little black dress and look fab. 😁
Crazy to think Alister Crowley’s wardrobe would one day be bought at auctions by the author Chuck Palahniuk and subsequently sent to various people across the globe. An interesting series of events or the final stages of a plan put into motion decades ago in an effort to spread chaos across the world via the gifting of cursed trinkets? Guess we’ll find out in retrospect.
Hey, as a little kid reading "We Have Always Lived in the Castle" I never imagined that one day someone would send me Shirley Jackson's cremains.
The world is amazing.
Yeah. Sometimes it kicks ash.
Congrats, Steve! 🎉
'Twas an enjoyable exercise. Thanks, Chuck!
A question, Chuck. Do you think there’s going to be a shift in the way books get published in the upcoming years as opposed to how it’s traditionally been? I know you say that getting an agent and finding a publisher is part of the fun, and it may have been that way in the nineties, but it just seems like such a futile effort today. There’s so much going on in the culture right now and they way in which publishing houses operate make me think that there’s going to be a lot more self-published books, or whatever, that gain attention and then may subsequently get picked up by publishing houses in the future. I’m not even remotely connected to the publishing world in any way shape or form but I already have a bleak view of it. The shit that’s recently been pulled over here in the UK with some publishers doing a ministry of Truth from ‘1984’ and editing Roald Dahl’s books and Ian Fleming’s Bond books to be more in line with current zeitgeist values (go ahead and take a guess which) was a kind of final nail in the coffin for me. Currently of the mindset where I honestly don’t know if I’d just opt for self-publishing instead of going for the traditional agent and publishing house route if I was in the position.
I’d love to hear Chuck’s opinion on this as well. I’ve been following the publishing industry for a few years and still don’t know what to make of it.
Oh dear. This is a big, big question. Even now the agencies are combining to circle the wagons. CAA just merged with ICM. I'll leave this thread open all day and come back to it. Note that this year marks the first year since 1987 that vinyl record albums have outsold CDs. Things run in cycles, and people love their objects.
It's not a question of people not wanting to read books. It's a question of writing books that people will want to read. More soon...
But what if the books that people want to read aren’t getting published because they don’t fall in line with the publishing houses’ “values”?
And another thing -- this question open for everyone -- can you name even one author born post 2000? Like the time should be ripe for my generation to be seeing the emergence of it’s own Ellises, Welshes, Palahniuks, etc -- especially given the wealth of topics to write about in the shit show that is the current zeitgeist -- but it’s complete radio silence. Why is that?
Every trend passes. It makes money until the market is flooded with lesser versions -- the story of the rise and fall of chick lit. Look ahead to when publishers or readers want something radically different. What can books do that no other medium can? Play on those strengths. Part of coaching writers is showing them how dynamic and bold books can be.
Most people use books as a comfort, but when books become too bland, will you have something radically different to bring to market?
It's interesting, but a few years ago the Wall Street Journal featured a big story called "Guess Who's Reading?" The premise was that Millennials were defining themselves as the not-MTV generation. Thus they were turning to books and writing. Newer forms of social media might've derailed that prediction.
And I'd always imagined the Harry Potter generation would mature to want thrilling adult books. But that might take a few years. There tends to be a lapse between childhood reading and adult reading. I speak from experience.
Make Something Up got published in 2017. Some publishers are on the censorship tip, but not all.
My quandary is whether its worth the trouble of paying an agent and a publisher. You can serialize right here, slowly build an audience, and later pay for a print run of physical books to sell along with other merch.
Would love to have the validation of being published, but the big question is whether theyre willing to put any marketing money/effort behind a new author?
There's always scripts and indie films.
But Chuck’s been an established author extraordinaire since ‘96. I’m talking about NEW voices -- new blood, so to speak. But even so, that’s not to say established authors are having it much easier. Ellis’ new book, ‘The Shards’, is the first book of his to published by another author since 1992 when ‘American Psycho’ came out. Apparently there were some people at Picador -- the publisher who picked up ‘AP’ and who he’s been with since then -- who weren’t particularly fond of his new book, so he moved to a new publisher: Swift Press. Also, prior to coming out in print, the book was serialised on his podcast (Like ‘Greener Pastures’ on here). Ellis and Swift Press also had an interesting deal when it came to the publication of the book which, if I recall correctly, I believe Ellis said he believes will become the new standard. Instead of the lofty advance that a publisher would usually pay for a book, the publishing house (Swift Press) and the author (Bret Easton Ellis) went 50/50 on the costs of advertising.
As for movie scripts -- do you know what the percentage of scripts getting bought and actually made into a movie is in Hollywood, man? If not, here’s a clue: single digit.
We wont know anything for certain until we are offered something.
Im kinda stupid confident that both of us are going to be offered something.
I’ll raise a glass and drink to that.
And there's always a path no one's tried. Back when Christopher Paolini was a teenager and wrote the Eragon series he'd drive on long tours to distant towns. Dressed as a dragon -- he was a kid, himself -- he'd ask to entertain in elementary schools. During his show he'd pitch a book event that same night. Kids from every school in the area would stampede to the night's event... and he's sold 20+ million books. Before a publisher signed him, he'd already built his readership.
When then-nobody Doug Coupland wrote 'Generation X' his publisher had no advertising budget, so they faxed a sheet of paper to every fax machine in North America. Each sheet bore just a huge X. This would be illegal now, but it was legal then. It built a giant buzz for the book. Millions of X's day after day.
I never wrote 'Fight Club' to get it published. I wrote it to punish people who'd rejected my earlier work. And there are a few bold people still out there in publishing, looking to sign new voices and built a stronger list.
Absolutely adore that it was written out of spite. And, gun to my head, Im taking Invisible Monsters.
Continue to focus on using substack. People are stumbling upon it already. Around the time my confidence matches my optimism, industry people will come knocking.
Funny how the “present them with something worse” happened again with the abortion/grade school line in the film. A microcosm of a microcosm.
Ellis told me that the publisher was paying for the tour, and calling the shots.
I've always thought that an agency with a good PR team could replace most publishers. The editing and packaging are so easy now. It's getting the book onto shelves that needs work.
We are paying for the publishers connections to the booksellers.
Do not under estimate the publicity/distribution clout of a trad publisher. Without it you are swimming upstream with an anvil tied to your feet! It can be fine if you’re clever and completely social media savvy…but even then it leaves you no time to do the part you love—write.
This is a totally valid point, and absolutely true. However, with so many internet success stories on various platforms, I believe its just a question of having a unique voice, and persistence. Plus a publisher could find you that way as well. And if you already have an audience, you have some negotiation power.
Ultimately, its silly for me to mull this over right now. No choice but to stay focused on improving the writing.
Good point!
I think there may also be an element of luck to this type of thing though. Using “Fight Club” as an example, I don’t think the original hardback release had much in terms of advertising and it wasn’t really until the film release in ‘99 that it finally got the recognition it deserved and copies of it started selling like hotcakes. I think Chuck even said that some of the hardback copies from the original run were sitting in a storage facility somewhere and were about to be mulched but we’re saved by the release of the movie. So -- going back to the notion of luck -- David Fincher somehow gets hold of a copy of “Fight Club” between the years 1996-1999, despite the lack of advertising and so on, likes it and wants to buy the film rights to it. He eventually does, and the rest is history. Or, putting it another way, a series of coincidences and events transpire which ultimately put a copy of the book in the hands of a filmmaker who’s just had big commercial and critical success with his previous film (“Se7en”) and this ends up being the biggest piece of advertising for the book despite the book not getting the best advertising nor commercial success upon its publication.
Luck or Fate?
The world is conspiring to do lovely things for us.
There was a scout for 20th Century Fox, Raymond Bongiovani. He was dying, but had read 'Fight Club' as a manuscript. He urged Fox to option it, and at his funeral Variety reported "Raymond's last wish was for the gritty Chuck Palahniuk novel Fight Club to become a movie." It was mentioned in the eulogy, even.
Your job is to write something that creates that kind of passion in others.
And, no, few of the hardcover books sold in 1996. The movie was a failure until its release on DVD. It has been a long, slow slog.
I mean, if the market won’t put my head on a spike for trying, I’d like to hope so.
Bud. Read this book (which, in my opinion, is horribly, amateurishly written but has been HUGELY successful) and tell me anything you will ever write will be more "offensive" than this.
https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/714716/things-have-gotten-worse-since-we-last-spoke-and-other-misfortunes-by-eric-larocca/
This whole "cancel culture" boogeyman is severely overblown. Dave Chappelle just won a f'ing Grammy for god's sake. Write what you're gonna write. Some people will love it, some people will hate it. No one is going to actually punish you for doing it.
Jordan Peterson has done quite well for his false claims of censorship. I guess bad publicity is still better than no publicity?
Honestly, I think these claims of censorship are pure marketing. Diabolical, but genius -- because they actually work. Every time a Jordan Peterson or a Dave Chappelle says, "Oh no! Cancel culture is trying to get me!" people get all fired up and rush to defend them, thus giving them exponentially more attention than they would otherwise have gotten. Hell, the one and only context in which I even heard Ricky Gervais's latest comedy special mentioned was an article about how he made an anti-trans joke, got criticized for it, then cried about cancel culture. As far as I'm aware, that's the majority of attention his special managed to get.
These guys know exactly what they're doing. And it drives me absolutely bonkers watching people fall for it over and over and over again while they laugh all the way to the bank.
Yup that book is gross, just finished a third of it
Yeah, I'm REALLY not a fan (obviously). And not because it's too shocking or disturbing or whatever. If anything, I felt like it wasn't disturbing enough, because there was no character development, so nothing anyone did made sense. I felt like the author sat down and thought, "Ok, what's the most shocking thing I can come up with? Kid crucifying his infant brother just to watch him die? Perfect! Throw it in, even though it has no bearing whatsoever on the story. Right -- now, what else can I throw on the pile?" *exploding head emoji*
Chuck, in the intro to 'Moments in my writing life... ': "if you came to me and asked me to teach you everything I'm able, I'd tell you that the publishing industry is on life support. Bret Easton Ellis tells me the novel is no longer even a blip in the culture. You're too late. Piracy has destroyed the profits. Readers have all moved on to watching films and playing computer games. I'd say, "Kid , go home! ""
And then I finally cave and go forward with the work.
For those without your decades of experience, is moving on with the work still your advice?
Congrats! Brevity is the soul of wit.
Usually.
Breaking - Substack News Alert
Steve Cardoso Wins Big Prize with Superlative Entry
Disappointed non-winners offer congratulations.
CP is rumored to have said "superlative"? This is the word you use to offer congratulations?
Congrats Steve well done!
Definitely a winner! Congrats, Steve.
Hey Chuck, in Fight Club, when you wrote lines like, "I am Joe's...BLANK," is that an example of chorus? Started reading it yesterday and I'm halfway through. I LOVE the fact that you aren't afraid of repetition and single word paragraphs.
That's a chorus, but mostly it's a standarized way of externalizing emotion without using some bland word like angry, sad, jealous. It expresses the emotion in a unique way that's appropriate for the character.
Hah! I had a feeling you used it for that. That explains the "I am Joe's Blood-Boiling Rage." Nice.
Congrats. My Alexander McQueen headline came straight from the heart...lol
Im just now reading Call Out, and I happened to read a story about a shooter today to the sub-substackers. First person though. Leading up. Jolly Ranchers and Salmon Patties for everyone! Then we can all take turns on the trash can.
Congrats, Steve. Nice one, man.
Congrats Steve 🥳 such a great headline.
Steve, thanks for the address. Your cursed package will go out tomorrow morning.
I feel so blessed to be cursed.
Yay, Steve!!