Alas, we've tried to spin a 'Fight Club' sequel, but some five percent of the creative ownership in the movie rights is held by the remnants of Regency, the financing arm that all but went bankrupt. In 2019 I went to several meetings at Fox, and the studio had plans to take legal action and gain Regency's permission for new projects. Then... covid. So that's the lay of the land.
Great feedback. Those survival tips kept kept me going. What I liked about them, is that they offer something consistent to look forward to, they'll be be there, no matter what. Thats how I saw the opening of each chapter in Damned. You said in your comment, ''use them to establish authority'' What do you mean by that?
I took it to mean that they should establish that this is story about (or at least set in) wilderness survival and is being written by someone who's a real expert in it, and we are going to learn something cool as long as we give the narrator our undivided attention. But to do that, the survival tips need to real and unexpected.
Gill nets catch fish by their gills might be true, but it could also be a guess based on the name. Same with friction fires getting made by fiction. Contrast them with the cleaning tips in Survivor which seemed to be written by someone who is a genuine expert on domesticity and thinks about it all the time. In that story, we're hearing about the discoloured grout between the tiles and the best way to clean it because that's what the narrator can't help but see every time he walks into a room.
I would like to learn about whether the survival tips were things she knew from her training to be on the show or were they something she already knew and that's why she went on the show in the first place. Maybe she got basic survival tips from the show's producers but had some secret extra knowledge that the rest of the contestants didn't have.
Establishing authority means proving to the reader that you're the perfect person to tell this story. You know truths you'll share, and you'll be honest and not waste the reader's time. As Tom Spanbauer used to say, "Establish your authority, and you can do anything." Esoteric information can do this. So can brutal emotional honesty.
Chuck, your fundamentals are so on point. Besides all the experience you’ve accumulated, what do you use to keep sharp, in regards to storytelling/structuring/character development etc… you have such a keen insight that seems to come so fluidly, regardless of the subject matter. I study daily, and feel more lost than ever. Thanks in advance, my friend.
Hah! Any skill I have comes from decades of editors telling me, "We don't know what's wrong, but fix it. Just make it perfect, and we'll take another look." It's frustrating, but it makes you savage during rewrites.
Valid point, Good Sir. I appreciate that. Hope your Sunday is well, and if not... perhaps a slight adjustment to the dosage? Figuratively speaking, of course.
Or I suppose we just wait til' tomorrow and give her a go again. There's work to be done.
Thanks for responding, Professor P! You're my boy, Blue!!
I mixed concrete and mortar all day yesterday and carried it in 50-pound buckets up a long stairway into the woods, to where I'm building a bridge across a ravine. Sunburned and barely able to walk today. Hope you're feeling better than me.
I accomplished nothing noteworthy. Rather fitting, as it matches the way I feel today, and also my general disposition on most days. So I got that going for me… which is okay. But okay is better than bad.
A sad handy still trumps a sandy handy all day, and twice with your mom.
Oh Chuck, this is gold. In so many ways. If you'll ever be working on a new "Consider This" – I mean, "Reconsider this"? – I hope this finds its way on the final draft.
I mean, it's written here, so I could just screenshot it and make it my screen saver. But I think there's so much in this comment, I wish everyone read it.
Thanks, Erik! It sprung from an idea for a longer piece. Test driving it as a standalone short but would love to circle back to it and make it something bigger.
I def think it could be expanded and still hold our attention. I was wanted to know what happened to Marcus! You could have narrator saying she’s suspicious he’s the monster and she sets traps for him, but his skills allow him to escape and she blames the bigass monsters so he never suspects her and and tries again something crazier #justiceformarcus
I read your story again a few days ago! Great to see it here on Gloves Off!
I had the same reaction as Chuck in the beginning, where I was physically holding up my hand, trying to do what the narrator was describing. I love the sort of foreshadowing when Marcus is like, didn’t Grizzly Man die? I really really loved discovering that the narrator was a woman! And that Marcus was a potential liar got me to thinking about her being an unreliable narrator, which is super fun. Chuck made some excellent notes about this; I hope you use them. At the end, when I pieced together the title and the ribbons, at the ending, I was like, nononononono!!!!!! You totally got me!
Great job, Andrew.
Great suggestions, Chuck. You fleshing stuff out like this is really helping my self-editing skills.
Andrew, looking forward to seeing where you take this!
Thank you, Maegan! I had just finished re-reading your Gloves Off as well! "Don't Tell Mom" has been my favorite story I've read from the submissions. One of those pieces of writing where you go, "Damn, I wish I thought of that!"
Big fan of all your work. Very much looking forward to your revision on that story, plus what you've got coming next!
Opening paragraphs are so tricky. I think I understand some traits of a good opening according to your advice...mostly through osmosis. It's a short paragraph. It doesn't reveal too much but it raises questions. And it also doesn't give the reader too much. Maybe focus the opening on a single concept or a single action? And in another Gloves Off, you praised their opening because it didn't explain anything which creates tension, if I'm not mistaken. This feels so weird. Until I discovered your book, I always thought the first line ought to be the most poetic. But your opening lines tend to lean toward the bare-bones.
Feels like I'm being horse and quartered by writing advice lol
Chuck, I'm incredibly grateful for the time and energy you put into this feedback (and for all the teaching you do). I was nodding my head to every word.
It wasn't until now that I realized in a lot of my work, I play it safe with my main characters. Over index on likable and sympathetic. This line will always stick with me: "Readers will adore a clever character that fools everyone except us." Changing the voice of the lead here will go miles. Digging deeper into the vertical. Can't thank you enough. This is just what I needed.
Now to embrace my inner evil, scheming genius on the next draft!
Consider that male writers tend to create blameless, victimized female characters. To me all characters should be bright and dynamic, regardless of gender.
Off topic: I received my serial killer gift box! It was delightful to go through it and amidst the packing peanuts find all the fun trinkets, candies (peppermint puffs are the BEST!), pet toys (my godkitty will be thrilled), and a gorgeously wrapped box tied with sparkly ribbons!
And then… oh, then… I looked down and saw what you had done. I was now contaminated, and your true intent was revealed. For along with the fun, laugh-inducing surprises was hidden the most contagious, insidious, evil creation of mankind.
I speak of course of glitter. And not just any glitter, but the tiniest grains of multicolored sparkle imaginable. My hands resembled roadkill following a Pride Parade, and any movement only spread the disease exponentially. Carefully, I carried the ticking bomb to the bathtub, found a lint roller, and de-fabuloused myself while giggling and hailing your evil genius.
Well played, sir. I salute you with a blinding rainbow sheen.
In a particular story I'm working on, the MC loves to get rid of stuff and replace them. Not just things but also relationships. And I thought it would be a clever to actually include strikeouts in the text, as a subtle way to show how she likes to rid her life of things. And also the MC used to be married, now recently divorced. Whenever she uses the words "us" and "our," I have her strike it out for "him." Our wedding photos becomes his wedding photos.
Just weighing in here, but I think that's an idea that could work really well to build momentum and bring the clock and gun through the story. I'd like to read something where you use this. An unreliable narrator literally rewriting their history as they go along could be awesome.
That sounds like a great idea. While I wrote 'Pygmy' Chelsea Cain suggested using blocks of ink to "redact' certain details. It looks great, and I now wish I'd done more of it.
Another brilliant Gloves Off! I particularly liked the survival tips throughout; I imagined them as little subtitles that got more and more unhinged as the story goes on.
I also like that this could be part of a larger, developed piece. Like some sort of Lord of the Flies descent into a survival show horror.
Okay, so, I'm a lifelong sticker user, and it's been at least 30 years since I've had to lick and stick. (gummed stickers still exist but are niche or vintage)
A world with competitive reality shows and GoPros isn't going to have that anymore than it would have payphones.
When you want to add a list to your story, how do you format it? Does it need to be in a paragraph, each item separated with commas? Or can it be an actual list with each item given it's own line?
Haha, yes!
Alas, we've tried to spin a 'Fight Club' sequel, but some five percent of the creative ownership in the movie rights is held by the remnants of Regency, the financing arm that all but went bankrupt. In 2019 I went to several meetings at Fox, and the studio had plans to take legal action and gain Regency's permission for new projects. Then... covid. So that's the lay of the land.
I remember a project with David Fincher, called chemical pink i think. Was that really something ?
Oh, I wish I could tell you the story about that one. But if I told you then I'd have to kill myself.
Great feedback. Those survival tips kept kept me going. What I liked about them, is that they offer something consistent to look forward to, they'll be be there, no matter what. Thats how I saw the opening of each chapter in Damned. You said in your comment, ''use them to establish authority'' What do you mean by that?
I took it to mean that they should establish that this is story about (or at least set in) wilderness survival and is being written by someone who's a real expert in it, and we are going to learn something cool as long as we give the narrator our undivided attention. But to do that, the survival tips need to real and unexpected.
Gill nets catch fish by their gills might be true, but it could also be a guess based on the name. Same with friction fires getting made by fiction. Contrast them with the cleaning tips in Survivor which seemed to be written by someone who is a genuine expert on domesticity and thinks about it all the time. In that story, we're hearing about the discoloured grout between the tiles and the best way to clean it because that's what the narrator can't help but see every time he walks into a room.
I would like to learn about whether the survival tips were things she knew from her training to be on the show or were they something she already knew and that's why she went on the show in the first place. Maybe she got basic survival tips from the show's producers but had some secret extra knowledge that the rest of the contestants didn't have.
Whose voice is in her head, repeating each tip?
Establishing authority means proving to the reader that you're the perfect person to tell this story. You know truths you'll share, and you'll be honest and not waste the reader's time. As Tom Spanbauer used to say, "Establish your authority, and you can do anything." Esoteric information can do this. So can brutal emotional honesty.
Chuck, your fundamentals are so on point. Besides all the experience you’ve accumulated, what do you use to keep sharp, in regards to storytelling/structuring/character development etc… you have such a keen insight that seems to come so fluidly, regardless of the subject matter. I study daily, and feel more lost than ever. Thanks in advance, my friend.
Be well 🤙🏼
Hah! Any skill I have comes from decades of editors telling me, "We don't know what's wrong, but fix it. Just make it perfect, and we'll take another look." It's frustrating, but it makes you savage during rewrites.
You're Goddamned right...
Valid point, Good Sir. I appreciate that. Hope your Sunday is well, and if not... perhaps a slight adjustment to the dosage? Figuratively speaking, of course.
Or I suppose we just wait til' tomorrow and give her a go again. There's work to be done.
Thanks for responding, Professor P! You're my boy, Blue!!
I mixed concrete and mortar all day yesterday and carried it in 50-pound buckets up a long stairway into the woods, to where I'm building a bridge across a ravine. Sunburned and barely able to walk today. Hope you're feeling better than me.
Come work for me??
You and your rocks…
Classic.
I accomplished nothing noteworthy. Rather fitting, as it matches the way I feel today, and also my general disposition on most days. So I got that going for me… which is okay. But okay is better than bad.
A sad handy still trumps a sandy handy all day, and twice with your mom.
Perspective is key.
Oh Chuck, this is gold. In so many ways. If you'll ever be working on a new "Consider This" – I mean, "Reconsider this"? – I hope this finds its way on the final draft.
I mean, it's written here, so I could just screenshot it and make it my screen saver. But I think there's so much in this comment, I wish everyone read it.
Hi Andrew. I dig your work. Does this piece stand on its own? Or is it part of something bigger?
Thanks, Erik! It sprung from an idea for a longer piece. Test driving it as a standalone short but would love to circle back to it and make it something bigger.
Well let it be noted, that there are most certainly others who I'm sure wouldn't mind if you circled back and gave her a day in court... count me in.
I def think it could be expanded and still hold our attention. I was wanted to know what happened to Marcus! You could have narrator saying she’s suspicious he’s the monster and she sets traps for him, but his skills allow him to escape and she blames the bigass monsters so he never suspects her and and tries again something crazier #justiceformarcus
It's a great short story. Reworking it with Chuck's advice will make it even greater.
Hey Andrew!
I read your story again a few days ago! Great to see it here on Gloves Off!
I had the same reaction as Chuck in the beginning, where I was physically holding up my hand, trying to do what the narrator was describing. I love the sort of foreshadowing when Marcus is like, didn’t Grizzly Man die? I really really loved discovering that the narrator was a woman! And that Marcus was a potential liar got me to thinking about her being an unreliable narrator, which is super fun. Chuck made some excellent notes about this; I hope you use them. At the end, when I pieced together the title and the ribbons, at the ending, I was like, nononononono!!!!!! You totally got me!
Great job, Andrew.
Great suggestions, Chuck. You fleshing stuff out like this is really helping my self-editing skills.
Andrew, looking forward to seeing where you take this!
Thank you, Maegan! I had just finished re-reading your Gloves Off as well! "Don't Tell Mom" has been my favorite story I've read from the submissions. One of those pieces of writing where you go, "Damn, I wish I thought of that!"
Big fan of all your work. Very much looking forward to your revision on that story, plus what you've got coming next!
Screenshotting your comment for motivation on bad days. What a compliment, wow! Really, thank you so much. 🥰☺️🤗 Enjoy your Gloves Off!!!!!
Opening paragraphs are so tricky. I think I understand some traits of a good opening according to your advice...mostly through osmosis. It's a short paragraph. It doesn't reveal too much but it raises questions. And it also doesn't give the reader too much. Maybe focus the opening on a single concept or a single action? And in another Gloves Off, you praised their opening because it didn't explain anything which creates tension, if I'm not mistaken. This feels so weird. Until I discovered your book, I always thought the first line ought to be the most poetic. But your opening lines tend to lean toward the bare-bones.
Feels like I'm being horse and quartered by writing advice lol
This'll take some time.
Chuck, I'm incredibly grateful for the time and energy you put into this feedback (and for all the teaching you do). I was nodding my head to every word.
It wasn't until now that I realized in a lot of my work, I play it safe with my main characters. Over index on likable and sympathetic. This line will always stick with me: "Readers will adore a clever character that fools everyone except us." Changing the voice of the lead here will go miles. Digging deeper into the vertical. Can't thank you enough. This is just what I needed.
Now to embrace my inner evil, scheming genius on the next draft!
Consider that male writers tend to create blameless, victimized female characters. To me all characters should be bright and dynamic, regardless of gender.
Thanks for putting some skin in the game.
This is spot on. Thanks again, Chuck!
Andrew, I keep thinking about your story and am really looking forward to your next draft. Hope you’ll share when it’s ready!!
Thank you, me too! Now to find the time to work on it...
Off topic: I received my serial killer gift box! It was delightful to go through it and amidst the packing peanuts find all the fun trinkets, candies (peppermint puffs are the BEST!), pet toys (my godkitty will be thrilled), and a gorgeously wrapped box tied with sparkly ribbons!
And then… oh, then… I looked down and saw what you had done. I was now contaminated, and your true intent was revealed. For along with the fun, laugh-inducing surprises was hidden the most contagious, insidious, evil creation of mankind.
I speak of course of glitter. And not just any glitter, but the tiniest grains of multicolored sparkle imaginable. My hands resembled roadkill following a Pride Parade, and any movement only spread the disease exponentially. Carefully, I carried the ticking bomb to the bathtub, found a lint roller, and de-fabuloused myself while giggling and hailing your evil genius.
Well played, sir. I salute you with a blinding rainbow sheen.
Hah! Nicely written!
I just leave the glitter on me so the joy of opening the box is linked to this sparkly tattoo.
Funny. I don't realize I have "glitter face" until I'm at the lumber yard and the guys look at me oddly.
Chances are they’re looking at you oddly because they’ve seen ‘Twilight’ and they believe they have reason to be concerned.
Hey Chuck, can I get your thoughts on something?
In a particular story I'm working on, the MC loves to get rid of stuff and replace them. Not just things but also relationships. And I thought it would be a clever to actually include strikeouts in the text, as a subtle way to show how she likes to rid her life of things. And also the MC used to be married, now recently divorced. Whenever she uses the words "us" and "our," I have her strike it out for "him." Our wedding photos becomes his wedding photos.
Would that effect work?
Just weighing in here, but I think that's an idea that could work really well to build momentum and bring the clock and gun through the story. I'd like to read something where you use this. An unreliable narrator literally rewriting their history as they go along could be awesome.
Thanks for your thoughts, Katy! It'll be a fun experiment worth trying.
That sounds like a great idea. While I wrote 'Pygmy' Chelsea Cain suggested using blocks of ink to "redact' certain details. It looks great, and I now wish I'd done more of it.
Keep at it. I love such devices.
Awesome! Thanks!
Can you do the strikethrough effect on Substack? Do they allow that feature? I've never posted on here. Google Docs has it.
Another brilliant Gloves Off! I particularly liked the survival tips throughout; I imagined them as little subtitles that got more and more unhinged as the story goes on.
I also like that this could be part of a larger, developed piece. Like some sort of Lord of the Flies descent into a survival show horror.
Awesome stuff.
Okay, so, I'm a lifelong sticker user, and it's been at least 30 years since I've had to lick and stick. (gummed stickers still exist but are niche or vintage)
A world with competitive reality shows and GoPros isn't going to have that anymore than it would have payphones.
Crashing this post with a quick comment on a tiny tech blip. Indulgence.
Chuck, I've noticed that Chapter 29 of Greener Pastures (https://chuckpalahniuk.substack.com/p/greener-pastures-29?s=r) is missing the "Greener Pastures" section tag and not appearing in the full list of chapters (https://chuckpalahniuk.substack.com/s/green-pastures-a-serialized-novel).
Just in case someone's reading it from that section and missing that chapter.
When you want to add a list to your story, how do you format it? Does it need to be in a paragraph, each item separated with commas? Or can it be an actual list with each item given it's own line?
I’d say it’s ultimately up to you; format your list however you want.
Like
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• or
• like
• this
Chuck you inspire - check out my fiction and poetry if you find time.
https://tumbleweedwords.substack.com/p/getting-educated-in-south-korea-poem?s=w