DeepArcher, nor am I naturally, but my dad has a real knack for it. He could just burp one up on command; the best were around the campfire with him trying to scare my little sister and me. One of my favorite books on writing, the one which I credit for the start of my beginning to understand of how story works is "The Science of Storytelling" by Will Storr. I highly recommend this book and shake a pitchfork at anyone who doesn't think it's brilliant, hehe. :)
This part Chuck wrote, “How would a cinematographer block and light the scene so that just the sight of it would fill the viewer with melancholy and dread? How would an actor react to the view so that the viewer would recognize he was filled with melancholy and dread? The goal is always to unpack the scene in details that will evoke a feeling. NOT to dictate the feeling by just stating it.”
That’s some major keys right there. Saving those for my writing.
The last paragraph Chuck wrote regarding creative writers and journalists— there’s strong truth there I can attest to. I’ve been through creative writing in college and journalism— I’m glad to have the journalism background because I have to get my story moving fast. I’m still a newbie writer to fiction and thankful to not get caught up in too many details. Writing and performing spoken word poetry helps too, to keep things brief and moving. I really hope I’m improving or can improve.
Scout McComb— thank you for putting your work out there for a GLOVES OFF. Each piece Chuck goes through is incredibly helpful and insightful. I’m also enjoying so many different opportunities to read other folks work. Congratulations Scout!!
Tom always said that years of MFA study was the equivalent of studying hydrology. It took Gordon Lish to teach him the actual plumbing of how stories worked, and how to piece them together.
Thank you for asking. We are 15 miles away from it and it’s been causing a lot of issues in the community. We are okay. But friends of mine who have foxes and other animals are struggling. Some lost their entire flock of chickens— fish were killed. They’re not telling people the truth about how dangerous the vinyl chloride and what other toxic substances were on the train. A reporter was even arrested when he was just doing his job. Air quality was pretty bad— my eyes were burning when outside earlier last week. The EPA and Governor have allowed people to return to their homes in the 1 mile area that they evacuated. Now, it’s a wait and see what happens from the damaged done. Along with who is responsible.
They just released the train manifest a few hours ago. I follow NickDrom on TikTok— he’s really given out alot of info. There was a lot more chemicals released. They’re playing it down around here.
I’ve been following it a lot. I see so many comments about it being a mini-Chernobyl. It’s insane to think that a small community can be upended overnight, and for what may be many years ahead. All over something that appears to have been very preventable. I’m very concerned about that cloud of smoke and what other towns the exhaust coming from that will affect. Everything I’ve read makes it sound like Flint Michigan, but much worse. The runoff from there is going to the Ohio River and then the Mississippi from what I understand. I think I saw that that’s drinking water for something like 30 million people. I am so sorry this happened in your area. I’d also been wondering if Chuck had much insight since his day used to work for the railroad, but I know a lot has changed since then.
This is perhaps not the thing to focus on with the situation, but the timing of it happening coinciding not too long after the release of the film adaptation of ‘White Noise’ where the exact same thing happens really emphasizes the notion of Delillo being a profit.
“Here's a crack-pot theory. It’s my experience that fiction writers arrive at the work either through journalism or through creative writing academia.”
I’m an uneducated rube. Dropped out freshman year. But I certainly would have taken a journalism class over a creative writing class. I heavily lean toward the simpler language.
The idea of journalism vs. creative writing came to me when I was working a lot with Chelsea Cain. Her graduate degree was in journalism, my undergrad was. We both seem to approach fiction with clarity as a priority. Clarity and action.
Good on you for taking on this piece, Chuck, and offering what you could to Scout. Although much of this was hard for me to follow, I do love when someone plays with language like this.
I also appreciate what Tom suggested. Use rich language but keep it short. Gotcha!
On being non-writerly again, or how to create tension with burnt tongue. Isn't it harder in 3rd person to be non-writerly? How do you pull off burnt tongue in 3rd person?
Try it! In the past I'd agree with you, but voicey third person with no revealed narrator is a blast to write. In a way you completely submerge the narrator, and only the burnt language suggests the narrator is there, somewhere.
Some incredible language choices here however it's like trying to watch a film through a tapestry. I think if Scout could look at stripping it back we could see what the story is and where it's going. Glad you submitted!
Reading the short story felt like a form of hypnosis, like I was dreaming awake. My brain felt sloshed on crashing visuals. It’s been a minute since a story lulled me into that sort of hypnagogia, which I appreciate. Enjoyed the brutalist un-punctuation as well. I think Chuck’s questions about building more clarity in the core events, using the flashbacks to build tension, and providing stronger character signifiers early on (Carrick bend was a good one) could take this story to another level without sacrificing the sensorial cornucopia. By the end I couldn’t make much sense of what significance the story’s events held, but it left me dream drunk, and that’s never bad. Thank you for sharing, Scout. 🖤
"A boat captain in the middle of middle age shouldn’t I know something about circling birds?" - I love the circling birds. Up to this point, I've gathered that this man is laying down. He is in a cave, but the circling birds makes me picture him out in the middle of nowhere, vultures above getting ready to peck away, and I like that image a lot. And I like his thought--shouldn't I know this?
"Hordes of gnats drifting above the main current like confetti." -I like the image of gnats and how it makes me think of uncomfortable circumstances.
"Under threat. I want to say forgotten but you have to be remembered before you can be forgotten." This line gives some tension. Lets me know that yes, this guy is in a cave unintentionally. Also, I like the forgotton/remembered part because it hints at his backstory.
"I touched my collar. Unbuttoned it." - Simple, but very easy to follow. A motion I've done myself and can picture in my head. I want more actions like this that I can follow along with and imagine myself as the character doing.
"Felt my ankle snap. I stopped struggling. There were only so many units of motion left. Pushed my tongue against the back of my teeth and swung myself deeper underwater looking for something anything please god help me god just please help me" - Here is some conflict that I've been wanting. I like the pushing of tongue and I like the please god repetition. You could almost end the sentence right there.
Other thoughts:
Reading comprehension has always been something I've struggled with. If I can't make a movie in my head out of the words on the page, I have to read something eight, nine times before I begin to grasp it. It's interesting because you have quite descriptive language. It seems I should be able to make that movie in my head, and yet I do find myself having a hard time following along at times. Why is that? It could be because my brain wants to attach to and follow objects. Ok, then, why is this? Well, I think objects tend to be more concrete by nature. They are physical things that my brain already knows, and the meaning associated with the object(s) can be manipulated as the story continues. I wonder what would happen if you give the captain an object to carry with him downstream.
That same concreteness in writing can be applied to verbs, I think. The more abstract, the harder to make a mental movie. The more concrete, the easier. So I guess my suggestion is see what happens if you take some of that abstract language and make it more concrete.
The narrator is a boat captain, I wonder what happened to his crew? Or passengers? Even though he is alone, shipwrecked it seems, I wonder if having him think of these other people would take away some of that 'beware the character alone' we are studying.
As a reader, I think what I'm searching for in a story is the problem the main character is experiencing. This character is wandering alone, but he doesn't seem to be bothered by it.
The noticing of all the natural details could maybe be removing the sense of urgency that we could be feeling. The flashback to what happened on the boat is helpful, but it's like my grandma told me: "Never take a picture of something unless there's a person in it. Otherwise when you go and look back at the picture, it won't carry any meaning."
At the end, it seems like the narrator is drowning and is having his life flash before his eyes. But I wonder, did he die? Did he emerge as a ghost? Or was he actually set free. I bet you could clear this up a bit by interspersing some present in-scene action in with your life flashing before the eyes flashbacks.
All in all, beautiful language. Thanks very much for sharing, Scout! Hope the feedback is helpful.
When I think of sailors I think of songs like "Another New World" by Josh Ritter and "The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald" by Gordon Lightfoot both of these songs tell an effective and wonderful story that is both short, descriptive, and powerful.
The sailor in this story just seems to have the nautical part as a one-time adjective and nothing more. As a sailor everything you do is defined by your time on the water. After some time out on the ocean you can end up getting land sickness because you are so used to the movement of your vessel beneath you. These are things that will anchor your reader and build some sympathy for your narrator. Just disregard my input if it doesn't work for your story but know ye that if ye be a landlubber, sea lawyer, salt, swab, land dog, square-knot admiral, polywog, gold bricker,, and any other scavenger of the seven seas ye will heed my advice. For it be the advice of a trusty shellback that has been recognized by Neptunus Rex himself. Otherwise ye might find yourself in a locker run by Davey Jones himself and that be ye a very tragic fate indeed.
Was that your story? Sorry— I can be a little slow. Comes from being around too much propane. Lol.
DeepArcher, nor am I naturally, but my dad has a real knack for it. He could just burp one up on command; the best were around the campfire with him trying to scare my little sister and me. One of my favorite books on writing, the one which I credit for the start of my beginning to understand of how story works is "The Science of Storytelling" by Will Storr. I highly recommend this book and shake a pitchfork at anyone who doesn't think it's brilliant, hehe. :)
I’ll look forward to it!
Your lovely Valentine's package goes out this morning. No crying alone for you.
Wow! That is excellent feedback.
This part Chuck wrote, “How would a cinematographer block and light the scene so that just the sight of it would fill the viewer with melancholy and dread? How would an actor react to the view so that the viewer would recognize he was filled with melancholy and dread? The goal is always to unpack the scene in details that will evoke a feeling. NOT to dictate the feeling by just stating it.”
That’s some major keys right there. Saving those for my writing.
The last paragraph Chuck wrote regarding creative writers and journalists— there’s strong truth there I can attest to. I’ve been through creative writing in college and journalism— I’m glad to have the journalism background because I have to get my story moving fast. I’m still a newbie writer to fiction and thankful to not get caught up in too many details. Writing and performing spoken word poetry helps too, to keep things brief and moving. I really hope I’m improving or can improve.
Scout McComb— thank you for putting your work out there for a GLOVES OFF. Each piece Chuck goes through is incredibly helpful and insightful. I’m also enjoying so many different opportunities to read other folks work. Congratulations Scout!!
Very relatable. I did six years of graduate Creative Writing and although the certificates are pretty, I'm now merrily unlearning myself.
Tom always said that years of MFA study was the equivalent of studying hydrology. It took Gordon Lish to teach him the actual plumbing of how stories worked, and how to piece them together.
Absolutely pleasure to have you servicing my pipes.
Hello Kerri --
You and Sassy okay? The news about that train derailment and burning is gruesome.
Thank you for asking. We are 15 miles away from it and it’s been causing a lot of issues in the community. We are okay. But friends of mine who have foxes and other animals are struggling. Some lost their entire flock of chickens— fish were killed. They’re not telling people the truth about how dangerous the vinyl chloride and what other toxic substances were on the train. A reporter was even arrested when he was just doing his job. Air quality was pretty bad— my eyes were burning when outside earlier last week. The EPA and Governor have allowed people to return to their homes in the 1 mile area that they evacuated. Now, it’s a wait and see what happens from the damaged done. Along with who is responsible.
I certainly hope you are feeling better!!
Wow. My fingers and toes are crossed for you. What a mess.
They just released the train manifest a few hours ago. I follow NickDrom on TikTok— he’s really given out alot of info. There was a lot more chemicals released. They’re playing it down around here.
Toss Sassy in the car and just start driving. Get a canary, just in case.
I’ve been following it a lot. I see so many comments about it being a mini-Chernobyl. It’s insane to think that a small community can be upended overnight, and for what may be many years ahead. All over something that appears to have been very preventable. I’m very concerned about that cloud of smoke and what other towns the exhaust coming from that will affect. Everything I’ve read makes it sound like Flint Michigan, but much worse. The runoff from there is going to the Ohio River and then the Mississippi from what I understand. I think I saw that that’s drinking water for something like 30 million people. I am so sorry this happened in your area. I’d also been wondering if Chuck had much insight since his day used to work for the railroad, but I know a lot has changed since then.
This is perhaps not the thing to focus on with the situation, but the timing of it happening coinciding not too long after the release of the film adaptation of ‘White Noise’ where the exact same thing happens really emphasizes the notion of Delillo being a profit.
Is the writer an Ovid fan by chance? Reads like a more modern, dark style of The Metamorphoses. Very poetic feel.
I like the sea canoe scene. Reminds me of Aqueous Transmission by Incubus.
“Here's a crack-pot theory. It’s my experience that fiction writers arrive at the work either through journalism or through creative writing academia.”
I’m an uneducated rube. Dropped out freshman year. But I certainly would have taken a journalism class over a creative writing class. I heavily lean toward the simpler language.
The idea of journalism vs. creative writing came to me when I was working a lot with Chelsea Cain. Her graduate degree was in journalism, my undergrad was. We both seem to approach fiction with clarity as a priority. Clarity and action.
Miriam, June 1945, Truman Capote
No, but I'm dying to read that story.
Good on you for taking on this piece, Chuck, and offering what you could to Scout. Although much of this was hard for me to follow, I do love when someone plays with language like this.
I also appreciate what Tom suggested. Use rich language but keep it short. Gotcha!
On being non-writerly again, or how to create tension with burnt tongue. Isn't it harder in 3rd person to be non-writerly? How do you pull off burnt tongue in 3rd person?
Try it! In the past I'd agree with you, but voicey third person with no revealed narrator is a blast to write. In a way you completely submerge the narrator, and only the burnt language suggests the narrator is there, somewhere.
Some incredible language choices here however it's like trying to watch a film through a tapestry. I think if Scout could look at stripping it back we could see what the story is and where it's going. Glad you submitted!
Reading the short story felt like a form of hypnosis, like I was dreaming awake. My brain felt sloshed on crashing visuals. It’s been a minute since a story lulled me into that sort of hypnagogia, which I appreciate. Enjoyed the brutalist un-punctuation as well. I think Chuck’s questions about building more clarity in the core events, using the flashbacks to build tension, and providing stronger character signifiers early on (Carrick bend was a good one) could take this story to another level without sacrificing the sensorial cornucopia. By the end I couldn’t make much sense of what significance the story’s events held, but it left me dream drunk, and that’s never bad. Thank you for sharing, Scout. 🖤
Hi Scout! Thanks for sharing your story with us.
Here are some lines I really enjoyed, and why.
"A boat captain in the middle of middle age shouldn’t I know something about circling birds?" - I love the circling birds. Up to this point, I've gathered that this man is laying down. He is in a cave, but the circling birds makes me picture him out in the middle of nowhere, vultures above getting ready to peck away, and I like that image a lot. And I like his thought--shouldn't I know this?
"Hordes of gnats drifting above the main current like confetti." -I like the image of gnats and how it makes me think of uncomfortable circumstances.
"Under threat. I want to say forgotten but you have to be remembered before you can be forgotten." This line gives some tension. Lets me know that yes, this guy is in a cave unintentionally. Also, I like the forgotton/remembered part because it hints at his backstory.
"I touched my collar. Unbuttoned it." - Simple, but very easy to follow. A motion I've done myself and can picture in my head. I want more actions like this that I can follow along with and imagine myself as the character doing.
"Felt my ankle snap. I stopped struggling. There were only so many units of motion left. Pushed my tongue against the back of my teeth and swung myself deeper underwater looking for something anything please god help me god just please help me" - Here is some conflict that I've been wanting. I like the pushing of tongue and I like the please god repetition. You could almost end the sentence right there.
Other thoughts:
Reading comprehension has always been something I've struggled with. If I can't make a movie in my head out of the words on the page, I have to read something eight, nine times before I begin to grasp it. It's interesting because you have quite descriptive language. It seems I should be able to make that movie in my head, and yet I do find myself having a hard time following along at times. Why is that? It could be because my brain wants to attach to and follow objects. Ok, then, why is this? Well, I think objects tend to be more concrete by nature. They are physical things that my brain already knows, and the meaning associated with the object(s) can be manipulated as the story continues. I wonder what would happen if you give the captain an object to carry with him downstream.
That same concreteness in writing can be applied to verbs, I think. The more abstract, the harder to make a mental movie. The more concrete, the easier. So I guess my suggestion is see what happens if you take some of that abstract language and make it more concrete.
The narrator is a boat captain, I wonder what happened to his crew? Or passengers? Even though he is alone, shipwrecked it seems, I wonder if having him think of these other people would take away some of that 'beware the character alone' we are studying.
As a reader, I think what I'm searching for in a story is the problem the main character is experiencing. This character is wandering alone, but he doesn't seem to be bothered by it.
The noticing of all the natural details could maybe be removing the sense of urgency that we could be feeling. The flashback to what happened on the boat is helpful, but it's like my grandma told me: "Never take a picture of something unless there's a person in it. Otherwise when you go and look back at the picture, it won't carry any meaning."
At the end, it seems like the narrator is drowning and is having his life flash before his eyes. But I wonder, did he die? Did he emerge as a ghost? Or was he actually set free. I bet you could clear this up a bit by interspersing some present in-scene action in with your life flashing before the eyes flashbacks.
All in all, beautiful language. Thanks very much for sharing, Scout! Hope the feedback is helpful.
When I think of sailors I think of songs like "Another New World" by Josh Ritter and "The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald" by Gordon Lightfoot both of these songs tell an effective and wonderful story that is both short, descriptive, and powerful.
The sailor in this story just seems to have the nautical part as a one-time adjective and nothing more. As a sailor everything you do is defined by your time on the water. After some time out on the ocean you can end up getting land sickness because you are so used to the movement of your vessel beneath you. These are things that will anchor your reader and build some sympathy for your narrator. Just disregard my input if it doesn't work for your story but know ye that if ye be a landlubber, sea lawyer, salt, swab, land dog, square-knot admiral, polywog, gold bricker,, and any other scavenger of the seven seas ye will heed my advice. For it be the advice of a trusty shellback that has been recognized by Neptunus Rex himself. Otherwise ye might find yourself in a locker run by Davey Jones himself and that be ye a very tragic fate indeed.